hello all. i am darkom, creator of the dark kings and current leader of its team. this mod is extremely lore intensive and i want to be as correct as possible, using the holes in history and people that weren't accurately recorded to insert my own answers. so, i need to find the right holes. these need to be in daedric princes, the dark brotherhood, the morag tong, landscape features, etc. but, i am no lore master, and i only have two lore people on my team. so, i have some questions that i will post soon. but right now, any advice, questions, or interesting tidbits you have would be appreciated. i hope one day, this thread will be used by everyone for a place to ask any questions for their mods^^. thank you all, and please tell me if i shouldn't be posting this, i have had that problem before^^. thanks all

questions:

• were the origins of the morag tong specific, or are they open ended?
  
• what about the dark broterhood?
  
• is red mountain in morrowind a volcano?
  
• could a regular person live in oblivion (the lava place, not the game) with all that armor on and know the language and not be noticed?

1. Not sure, though we know they pre-date the Second Era.
2. The Dark Brotherhood was the direct result of a schism in the Morag Tong, separating. The two sides hate each other immensely.
3. Yes.
4. No. There are many, many more fundamental differences than the color of their skin. Like mortality, for instance. Also, the 'lava place' is either the Deadlands (the Realm of Mehrunes Dagon, a mere part of the void of Oblivion) or some border realms of Oblivion (not controlled by any one prince, that lay in between the main Realms). Personally, I feel the second theory is more accurate, as Boethia and Peryite send you to similar Realms.

I went off a bit on that last one, but it's important to know the true difference, as Bethesda didn't do that well of a job clarifying (until Shivering Isles).

hmm, then how long would it be from a mortal going into oblivion, dremora place, fully camouflaged in armor and using illusion to make himself look like a daedra, to be discovered? do they just know instinctively who are dremora and who aren't? or would they need to do some kind of test?

I'd say that living in a daedric realm would be impossible, unless you can give me a satisfactory explanation of what you would do to accomplish it.

let's see...an incredibly skilled assassin, capable of sneaking into the imperial palace and assassinating the emporer in his bed(before he was killed by mythic dawn^^), who is also a master in illusion, alteration, and a scholar in dremora culture, language, and alphabet, gets full dremora gear and changes his appearance to resemble a dremora using an enchanted bit of metal that has been implanted into him so it cannot be removed forcibly and then opens or sneaks into an oblivion gate, then sneaks into a citadel within, using charm and other spells on all dremora, avoiding all traps and creatures. he uses alteration to change his voice so he can speak dremora and goes about the likely duties of a dremora. i believe that is a satisfactory and full explanation as i can give.

OR

he gets permission from mehrues dagon himself to live as a dremora, dressed as a dremora, etc.

While we are on the topic, aren't the outer realms full of undead and run by vampire lords? I think I read it somewhere, but I cannot for the life of me find it. I thought it was where undead summons come from.

And wasn't Uriel Septim VII sent to oblivion during the simulacrum? He lived, albeit in anightmarish dreamlike state.

Undead and Vampires are just dead mortals, so it would be weird to find them any place else.

Uriel was imprisoned by Dagon, so had a god keeping him alive.

The outer realms are Oblivion.

But there are mortals in The Shivering Isles and Coldharbour.


So you're right, it seems. But isn't there one realm of oblivion without a prince, that is full of undead? Or have I just misheard something else?

Hmm, sounds like you've been playing Frostcrag Reborn. There some made-up "lore" about the nature of time and the dead and some such.

I think. I could be wrong. But that's the first thing that popped to mind when you mentioned this.

And I don't now the heck why. Ask Bethesda's level designers.

The Deadlands were not designed for a mortal to live in. The UESP describes it as an 'infernal slaughterhouse for mer and men.' That being said, I think it would be difficult to mimic the unique language and especially the tone of voice Daedra speak in. And Dagon would definitely realize that there's a mortal in his plane somewhere.

@TtP: I don't have any recollection of a plane of Oblivion not ruled by a Daedric Prince. I'm pretty sure there isn't one, but I'm probably wrong. :shrug:

No, I don't know what that is. I'm sure i read it in an in game book, or UESP, or somewhere official.

Mundus is a plane in Oblivion.

There was the Battlespire too, which isn't a heavenly body but some sort of artificial, magically-sustained pocket realm. By some acounts Oblivion is a chaotic kaleidoscope of orphaned corners of existence. The so-called void isn't really void- that's the stuff beyond both Oblivion and Aetherius.

I thought that was only in the twisted mind of Camoran. It wasn't really Lorkhan's realm was it?

UESP: Though some books attribute the creation of Nirn (and thus Tamriel) to Lorkhan, that doesn't necessarily imply that it is a plane of Oblivion (The Lunar Lorkhan). Mankar may be making a fundamental mis-assumption that because Lorkhan is Padomaic, he is by default Daedric. Sithis is another example of a Padomaic entity that is not a Daedra prince.

How far can we trust the ramblings of someone that thinks Coldharbour is Meridia's realm?

That was a typo- Bethesda mistook a pre-writing exercise from a contracted freelance writer for a final draft.

I didn't say that Nirn is Lorkhan's realm, I just said that it floats in Oblivion like the other realms. (Actually, I may have written part of that uesp article, and can tell you first hand it's not a good idea to quote from there )

Mankar isn't lying or rambling, he's just exhibiting an alien worldview that has some things to teach us anyway. He only makes one really suspect statement. If Lorkhan was the Prince of Tamriel, it would mean that Tamriel is formed of his substance. If that is so, then why is his spirit (Heart) down here and his body up there, in the moons?

Well, sorry about UESP, but it takes me forever to find anything on TIL. Actually, what you said before about orphaned corners of existence may well have been what I heard about. Unstable pockets where powerful beings are able to set up their own rule. I don't know. I'm certain I heard this somewhere, and I don't think it was a fanfic.

Pocket planes pop up now and again throughout the history of the games, but I'm forgetting most of the examples. The Mantellan Crux was one, though back then Aetherius wasn't what it is now.

^^so glad i could help^^

Sounds like something I might have said. One example would be the Battlespire, and 'Doors of Oblivion' mentioned some Telvani pocket realms too (one of the weapons in Fyr's tower transported you too one as well, I imagine that was what they were referring too).



He didn't need his old body anymore. Thats why he recruited those Aedra remember?

hey all. darkom here with a new question.
What is the elder scrolls idea behind death, afterlife, the grim reaper, and the end of the world?
i need these both because my mod will use them as assassins and i wanted to start another heated debate^^

Daedra, as far as I know, don't need to sleep. So if they catch you going to sleep, they'll know. Also I doubt they eat, so you'd be in danger if they caught you eating.

Different groups have different ideas. The Nords believe that warriors who die in combat go to Sovengarde, a super-wonderful mead hall run by their god Shor. The Elves have some kind of belief about something called the "Dreamsleeve," though I don't really have an understanding of that. The ghostly Blades that the player helps out in Sancre Tor in OB seem certain that they are going to Aetherius, realm of the Nine Divines. In "Shivering Isles," suicides end up on the Hill of Suicides in Sheogorath's Realm, where they relive the same day over and over.

So......it's pretty ambiguous.

excellent, its debatable. so, i could come up with my own idea, or should i use a pre existing one, or the most popular one? cause i want my cult to be as normal as possible^^.

edit: thanks

A basic description of the Dreamsleeve is the place where souls are recycled.

Sovengarde likely is the Dreamsleeve, I think. Isn't there something about the Dreamsleeve appearing to mortals how they expect life after death to appear?