I am doing a bit of research...

Are the actual details know about what actually went on when Hannibal Traven and Carahil, defeated Lorgren Benirus?

And who might be the group of mages involved on both sides of that battle?

And if I wanted to embellish on that fight, what might I look to for inspiration?

Don't think so. Though I have limited Oblivion knowledge, I haven't seen anything in TIL about it.

Little is known except whoever it was, it was led by Carahil, and Lorgren's body was never found, as only a Benirus could open the portal.

Yes, that is what I was thinking, I am going to be helping with something pertaining to that and wanted to add as much realism to the story as possible.

But I think I am going to have to take a little bit of poetic license to make it all work maybe.. lol :foodndrink:

What year do you think it was that Carahil lead the fight against Lorgren Benirus?

Ok, just trying to wind this up, I answered my own question of "What year do you think it was that Carahil lead the fight against Lorgren Benirus?"it was, with the "Scrap from Lorgren's Diary"

2 Sun's Dawn 3E335
The people of Anvil are worms! How dare they criticize what they don't understand! I shall have my vengeance in a form they cannot possibly imagine. I shall use the souls of the departed to prolong my own life. The Tome is very specific. I must have more bodies... yes... more bodies.

11 Sun's Dawn 3E335
I must protect myself from those meddlers. They shall not interfere in my designs. I have constructed a room in the basemant of this manor. It is there I will inter my corporeal self and I will transcend this plane of existence. Only a true-blooded Benirus may open the portal, so if I fail, however unlikely that may be, a descendant may attempt to follow in my footsteps to carry on the true way. To make sure our secret is safe, I have harnessed the spirits of those whose bodies I have defiled to forever guard that place.

15 Sun's Dawn 3E335
The fools think I don't hear them speaking? I can hear their rumor and innuendo. They intend to meddle in powers they can barely comprehend. They call me an old fool and shun me. The young dare each other to step one foot in my yard. I have become the stuff of old wives tales and campfire stories. They dismiss me as an oddity. But soon they will see. When all of Anvil lies in waste around me, when their corpses litter the streets and their blood dampens the earth... only then will my true power be known and feared.

So is it of your opinion that he sealed himself in the room after cutting off his own hand, and laid himself out on the table and died?

Or..

Was he laid out and sealed in the tomb by another as yet to be unmentioned Benirus?

Another question what if anything of importance was going on during the 2 Sun's Dawn 3E335 to 15 Sun's Dawn 3E335 time frame?

Edit: Something interesting, is the hand print in the http://www.imperial-library.info/obbooks/tome_unlife.shtml , from the severed hand?

Well... Carihill lead abunch of mages (Probably the ones you'll find in the guild hall) and they killed Logren and went on to burn the mansion and loot it. Logren crawled into the chamber, Sealing it behind him. He used the magic in the tome to put himself in hibernation, If you will.

If you've ever seen Tenacious D in The Pick of Destiny then the part where JB smashes off the devils horn and says "From wence you came, You shall remain, Until you are complete again!" Basically means the devil must stay in hell until his body is put back together.

Logren Benirus must stay dead until his hand is stuck back on his body. Logren then crawled up onto the alter where you first saw him and went to sleep.

Lets see:

1. Lorgen started dabbling in magic until he found the tome of unlife. At that point he became obsessed with inmortality. He started to collect bodies to prolong his live.

2. Lorgen was discovered and the Guild of Mages whiped him out. In the process he loses his hand.

3. Somehow his body ended up in the secret chamber minus his hand. Because of this, the ritual that would turn him into a Lich didn't work.

4. The player comes in and adds the hand back to the skeleton, completing the ritual.

Now I don't recall if there were any undead servants in the secret chamber but typically the ritual to become a lich requires a few - they are animating your dead body for you afterall. (From that other Lich with the hour glass)

So at #3 either his servants dragged him in and turned him into a Lich or he didn't quite die and dragged himself in there and completed the ritual.

I don't think there is another Benrius, that would be a rather major plot point.

So he must have imprinted his hand still attached in "Life" in the tome, then as he was cutting it off and dying imprinted it again in "Unlife" to bind his soul to the book, with blood.

Then completing the severing of his hand, places it in the urn upstairs, then retreated to the basemant sealing the wall behind him with the hand wheel on the floor first.

Then magically with "The Tome Of Unlife", then bleeding to death, laid him self out on the slab the way that you find him when you enter the basemant?

This happened a hundred years prior; I doubt those other guys in there were even living at the time.

Maybe. Kinda hard to tell though, considering it has no flesh. IT might have been part of the ritual he used to become a lich. Interesting tidbit, the daedric lettering reads, "The First" over the small symbol on the left in the first page, and "The last" on the symbol to the right of it.

Well it obviously happened recently, because Carihill clearly led the attack. Unless she's a necromancer too. :ninja:

Judging from the journal scraps it happened in 3E 335, it currently is 3E 433. Carahil was a young upstart at the time. She's an Altmer so the 100 years aren't a problem. Their natural span is 200 years and a mage can extend that even more.

I forgot. Cursed Altmer defying Imperial life spans. :swear:

With all previous evidence in mind;

Logren Benirus dedicated his life to Necromancy and wanted to destroy Anvil. Carahill learned of his plot and lead a group of mages into the Manor to kill Logren. After they thought Logren was dead, Carahill and the mages went on to loot and destroy the mansion whilst Logren crawled into the chamber.

Using dark magic, Logren used the secrets in the Tome of Unlife to make himself undead. He must have been using the book at the time and a mage must have cut off his hand (Explaining all the blood on the book) He could not be animate if he was not complete so climbed on top of the alter and went into a state between life and death.

Logren then waited for someone to come and put his hand back in place so he could rise up and destroy Anvil.

It's alot like a film from The Mummy series, Isn't it?

What mage cut off his hand?

One of the ones attacking?

If it was one of the attacking mage's, why would they put it in an Urn in the living room?

The hand is a integral part of his return that he talks about when he is revived by the player...

I don't think one of the mage's of Carahill's group would have had any part of that..

He had to have done that himself, like I said in http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?s=&showtopic=873407&view=findpost&p=12750298, or have been assisted by people that were on his side of things, other necromancers, I would think any way..


Well I think his right hand is the one that is missing, and there are two hand prints in the book, one non-bloody one, and one bloody one..

The flesh being gone is not a problem because it is 100 years later, so the flesh would rot away from the hand in the Urn..

I do find that interesting as well about the "First and the Last" part as well... :foodndrink: