Taking account of the events in the game Skyrim. The voice was taught by Paarthurnax (possible observer) to the Greybeards (rebel). Then fast forward time to the LDB. Who was shouted at by the Greybeards (after taking a dragon soul). Then a time later the LDB kills Alduin.

Also Shor being absent from his throne, maybe he was manifested in the LDB from the first greybeard shout?

And Dagon knew that where the horn soundings landed, the Tongues of High Hrothgar could step, and, when together, the greybeards could breathe unto being the ghost of Shor, which lay all Powers low [even in half-death].----http://www.imperial-library.info/content/seven-fights-aldudagga

Is it possible that Shor has mantled the LDB to overcome Alduin?

Not sure if Shor overcoming Alduin is new though. IIRC Shor already did battle with Alduin in the Five Songs of King Wulfharth, and still came out the victor in the end. That's assuming though that the battle Wulfharth witnessed was not our PC's bout with Alduin, too.

Yes your right forgot about the Five Songs. It;s the same almost. Saving the Nords lives from being so short from Old Orkey (Trinimac/Malacath- who kills Lorkhan) and Alduin (Akatosh).

In Skyrim you are prolonging if not keeping this Kalpa from ending. Almost the same thing but on much larger scale.

Shor has been winning since TES1

Arena: MD was prevented from entering

Daggerall: Talos came to existence

Morrowind: Talos saw it fit that Dagoth Ur be defeated

Oblivion: The cursed leper demon was repelled

Skyrim: Alduin, the dargon reset button, was repelled and the current kalpa was allowed to continue

So far, I'd say the space god has it this time.

Yeah, Lorkhan really hasn't lost yet. His plan has gone pretty much flawlessly. The only problem he's run into is Towers collapsing. Each of his victories has cost a Tower, which makes his precious Mundus more and more unstable. I'd say he knows he is on a time table.

Martin sort of chucked that idea out the window.

Martin might have stabilized White-Gold but the Thalmor are still out there.

Pointless, as the remaining towers along with Crystal-Like-Law were not enough to hold up Mundus, and it was destroyed in the Oblivion Crisis. I figure that whatever Martin did made the Towers purpose in holding up the world moot, instating a new covenant with Akatosh. The only tower that might have any merit anymore is Admantine.

He became a living deity with CHIM, got his heart back (or freed it), sealed Oblivion from his project via Akatosh and then assured that the World-Eater wouldn't set him back to square one. Looks like he's got one more move left.

Uh few problems with this...Talos didn't do anything in Morrowind but give the Nerevarine a coin Azura was the one who guided the Nerevarine, Oblivion was mostly akatosh, in skyrim it was never made clear what Alduin's intentions were but we saw nothing to suggest Alduin was trying to end the Kalpa.

Lorkhan's plan isn't going well at all, the plan was for everyone to achieve CHIM and so far only two people have, three if you believe the Nerevarine achieved CHIM. All but like...2 towers are deactivated and there is essentially no lorkhan worship in Tamriel, people don't even know that Talos mantled Lorkhan's position or that Akatosh is Shezarr.

In fact you could say Oblivion we see Lorkhan lose, Dagon's goal was trying to reclaim his position as the LDK, the LDK's job was to hide away pieces of the Kalpa for Lorkhan...without him nothing will be spared when Alduin decides to eat the world.

No, MD's goal to to restore himself by destroying everything. Counter intuitive to his previous incarnation as the LDK. So no, Space God did not lose.

As for Space God's goal, people accomplished what he should as to what NOT to do, so that's a success. And hey, that coin and his comments was proof enough Space God was there. And as for Alduin, it was still what he was supposed to do, yet he was repelled.

But we don't know if he was actually repelled forever, we already know this Kalpa ends so yea, Alduin comes back. Talos being there doesn't mean he guided the Nerevarine, all he did was wish the Nerevarine luck.

Did I say he was repelled forever? The kalpa was given extra time. For all we know, it is still enough time or not. We don't know, other than he was repelled for now. We don't know if THIS kalpa ends. We know other ones ended, but this one is still lasting.

EDIT:

This too. And it was disrupted, as this kalpa should have ended definitely by now. Yet it wasn't, even so far as being delayed further with Alduin's defeat.

Which for a god, is more or less giving them their thumbs up/blessing. Everyone wanted Ur gone, though, so he's hardly alone in that regard.

As to the kalpa ending...not entirely sure where you get that notion, as the only ones that make a big deal about it are the Greybeard's. Never mind the fact that they questioned whether or not he could be defeated due to the Tongues failure, and are supporters of the status-quo as far as nature goes. It's quite possible his death allowed Akatosh to reign him in, since Alduin's own nature conflicts with our Akatosh's own take on time.

Honestly stating that as Lorkhan is winning is pulling at straws seeing as again, we don't know Alduin's goal. Honestly, it seems more like the opposite, we don't even see Talos pushing for Lorkhan's goal or acting like Lorkhan, for the most part we don't even see Talos himself. At most the only thing we know about Talos is that he is a tower that holds Mundus up.


The point is guiding and wishing luck are two different things, Wulf didn't guide us to Dagoth Ur, Wulf had literally no part in the game besides wishing us luck and that can be overlooked easily.

In other words "I dismiss everything both of you said, because I don't like Space God"

way to go. I'll keep that in mind.

Oh no I like Lorkhan, it's just wrong to state he is winning because that's not what we're seeing. We can't say Talos guided the Nerevarine since he gave us no information and he didn't lead us anywhere of importance all he did was wish the Nerevarine luck, we can't say repelling Alduin expanded the Kalpa, Dagon's goal was to become the LDK again which would've AIDED Lorkhan, almost all of the towers are either destroyed or deactivated, sure we do some things that can be seen as aiding Lorkhan like freeing his heart and allowing the Underking to finally combine with the oversoul of Talos. But to state Lorkhan as winning....that's not really true....

I don't know, all of the games thus far have had a pretty pro-lorkhanic bent by virtue of "Hey man, existing is nice!". Never mind that the last three games have given us cultures that revere a facet of the Space-God in one form or the other.

Sure he's accomplishing his goals but he's not really.. winning.

Cider in a nutshell.

But he really isn't accomplishing his goals...What goals has he accomplished?

"The Thalmor are going to win in the end" - MK

Checkmate, slave of Sithis.

Only two people have achieved chim, three if you count the Nerevarine but we really can't use that as proof since it's only a theory, there is only like 2 towers that are still activated, the LDK is changed and barred from saving pieces of the kalpa...really I don't understand what goals have been accomplished, Lorkhan's goal was to make everyone reach CHIM not just two people.

Well, if by escape it means that they as an entity cease to exist, I'll laugh my merry ass off to the bank.

...apparently you aren't familiar with their goals. Their goals are to unmake Mundus, not to unmake themselves, hence once mundus is unmade the Kalpa ends hence WE KNOW THE KALPA ENDS which pretty much goes against Lorkhan's plan. Again I ask, what goals besides creating mundus has Lorkhan accomplished? Hence due to the fact not every spirit joined in to make Mundus we can already say he failed at showing everyone CHIM.

Lorkhan's goal was CHIM and then Amaranth. We haven't got there yet. It's being set up as we speak. When he becomes the New Man, he "wins" as far as "winning" goes in the TES mythos.