Is Lorkhan Good or Bad?

Post » Mon May 16, 2011 6:22 pm

I've read a ton of stuff on this dude, I'm still not sure...

Is he "good" like Akatosh? Or "bad" like...Mehrunes Dagon?

Please don't put links, I've googled it several times and still don't get it.
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Anne marie
 
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Post » Mon May 16, 2011 8:34 am

There is no good and evil.
Only chaos and order in the TES universe.
Lorkhan is chaotic.

I guess most would say good from the perspective that he created Mundus.

Good from Man perspective
Bad from Mer perspective
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Jennifer Munroe
 
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Post » Mon May 16, 2011 9:03 pm

Depends on the religion. To the Elves, he's bad. To Humans (and Argonians, IIRC), he's good.
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Nicole Kraus
 
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Post » Mon May 16, 2011 9:58 pm

Welcome to the wonderful lore world of TES, where good and bad are matters of perspective.

Depends on the culture. Mer believe they were descended from Gods, and that when Lorkhan tricked the Aedra into creating the Mortal Plane, he sundered them from what they once were. They seek to abolish all traces of him so that they can rejoin with their "ancestors" and become Gods once again.

Men revere Lorkhan, or Shor as he's commonly known, as the ultimate creator. He created the Mortal Plane, and thus allowed them to exist.

So it really depends on what you believe.
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Cash n Class
 
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Post » Mon May 16, 2011 7:19 pm

What SkyShadowing says is on the money; Mer hate him for they believe he robbed them of their godhood, while men (and Vivec) love him for they believe that creating Mundus was an act of divine mercy.

Also, Mehrunes Dagon isn't really a bad guy, he was cursed by Alduin to destroy Mundus in order to return to becoming the kind leaper devil king. Lastly, Akatosh is nothing more than a political move and an invention of Alessia, along with all of the Nine. Why? Well, it was to allow the liberated Nedes to continue practicing the merish pantheon, without pissing off the nords who contributed a significant amount of help to liberate them. Not to mention said nords would have either killed them because they follow the merrish pantheon, or make them follow the nordic patheon.
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Crystal Clear
 
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Post » Mon May 16, 2011 12:24 pm

The same can be said in regards to Akatosh and Mehrunes Dagon.

EDIT: Ninja'd, and much more thoroughly :(
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Lauren Dale
 
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Post » Mon May 16, 2011 9:12 am

Lastly, Akatosh is nothing more than a political move and an invention of Alessia, along with all of the Nine. Why? Well, it was to allow the liberated Nedes to continue practicing the merish pantheon, without pissing off the nords who contributed a significant amount of help to liberate them. Not to mention said nords would have either killed them because they follow the merrish pantheon, or make them follow the nordic patheon.

I would add that he has now become something much more then simply a political concession (See the end of Oblivion's MQ). Beliefs have the potential to affect gods in this universe. They are not static things. The beliefs of the people and the subseuquent actions of gods can create a positive feed back system resutling in radical theological and societal changes.
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Da Missz
 
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Post » Mon May 16, 2011 9:01 am

As it has been said, it depends on the culture. To the Altmer and Bosmer, he is Lorkhan, which means "Doom Drum" and he took away their godhood by creating Mundus. To the Nords, he is Shor who created Mundus out of divine mercy, and he is also anti-mer. The Cyrodiils know him as Shezarr, and he is like Shor, but less bloodthirsty. He was forgotten (he still has many cults, however), and replaced by Talos in the Nine Divines.

Also, it would be an exaggeration to say men worship Lorkhan. To the Redguards he is Sep who created Mundus because he wanted to eat spirits. Bretons know him as Sheor the "Bad Man." So only half of known men cultures worship him, and only the Nords of Skyrim actively do so "officially."
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C.L.U.T.C.H
 
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Post » Mon May 16, 2011 7:42 pm

There is no good and evil.
Only chaos and order in the TES universe.

And even that is an approximation. A more precise term is IS and IS NOT. But OP doesn't really need to know that unless he wants to get into the dense stuff.
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Miranda Taylor
 
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Post » Tue May 17, 2011 12:08 am

*said some stuff


Mer except for Dunmer.

Men except for Raga.

And, of course, all the variations we don't know about yet.
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Josh Lozier
 
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Post » Mon May 16, 2011 1:27 pm

So if the all men except for Redguards worship Lorkhan, is "Sheor" treated as a different being amongst the Bretons?
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Marquis deVille
 
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Post » Mon May 16, 2011 8:24 pm

So if the only men except for Redguards worship Lorkhan, is "Sheor" treated as a different being amongst the Bretons?


And, of course, all the variations we don't know about haven't been addressed yet.
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Symone Velez
 
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Post » Mon May 16, 2011 7:28 pm

I wish I knew more about the Redguard's history, mythology, ideology, etc.

In reading the Imperial Library page on Redguard gods, it says that Satakal destroys the world to begin the next. Then Tall Papa learns the walkabout, and teaches the spirits how to survive into the next world. Tall Papa creates a helper, Sep, out of the dead skins of past worlds (what?). Then Sep creates the world as we know it (Nirn) as an alternative to the walkabout.
So what world is Satakal destroying, and is this represented in other cultures' myths?
The relationship between Lorkhan and Akatosh doesn't seem to be the usual one; why is Sep created by Tall Papa?

I think I'm too used to looking at TES mythology through the lens of the more familiar cosmology of the Imperials and Nords...
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Amy Melissa
 
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Post » Mon May 16, 2011 10:12 am

It's all just a matter of Time management, relatively speaking.
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Mandi Norton
 
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Post » Mon May 16, 2011 5:02 pm

I wish I knew more about the Redguard's history, mythology, ideology, etc.

In reading the Imperial Library page on Redguard gods, it says that Satakal destroys the world to begin the next. Then Tall Papa learns the walkabout, and teaches the spirits how to survive into the next world. Tall Papa creates a helper, Sep, out of the dead skins of past worlds (what?). Then Sep creates the world as we know it (Nirn) as an alternative to the walkabout.
So what world is Satakal destroying, and is this represented in other cultures' myths?
The relationship between Lorkhan and Akatosh doesn't seem to be the usual one; why is Sep created by Tall Papa?

I think I'm too used to looking at TES mythology through the lens of the more familiar cosmology of the Imperials and Nords...

Satakal is eating himself. He sheds skins to start the cycle anew.
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Sophh
 
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Post » Mon May 16, 2011 10:47 pm

Is Tall Papa really the Redguard version of Akatosh? I don't really get that idea from him.

He teaches spirits to survive (Satakal's hunger) by jumping around. He placed the stars in the sky. Probably wrong about this, but maybe he is Magnus/Leaper King?
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tannis
 
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Post » Mon May 16, 2011 6:38 pm

The Redguard mythos seems to combine the traditional view of gods. I see the snake (especially the worldskin) as both Lorkhan and Alduin (creates the world, but also eats things). Tall Papa seems to be Magnus.
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Scott Clemmons
 
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Post » Mon May 16, 2011 8:41 pm

The Redguard mythos seems to combine the traditional view of gods. I see the snake (especially the worldskin) as both Lorkhan and Alduin (creates the world, but also eats things). Tall Papa seems to be Magnus.

That's what I'm thinking. It seems like the same stuff, just arranged differently.
It doesn't directly parallel the other views, but has the same elements.
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Ricky Rayner
 
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Post » Mon May 16, 2011 8:06 pm

There is no good and evil.
Only chaos and order in the TES universe.
Lorkhan is chaotic.

I guess most would say good from the perspective that he created Mundus.

Good from Man perspective
Bad from Mer perspective

Wow, dude thanks. This is a really easily understood post, that actually helped me (no sarcasm)
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Darian Ennels
 
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Post » Mon May 16, 2011 4:20 pm

The Redguard mythos seems to combine the traditional view of gods. I see the snake (especially the worldskin) as both Lorkhan and Alduin (creates the world, but also eats things). Tall Papa seems to be Magnus.


I think Sep's hunger comes from Akel, their version of Padomay and thus Sithis the nothingness. So he tries to fill up that nothingness. Poor Akatosh doesn't seem to have a sentient equivalent amongst the Ra'Gada. Tall Papa is Magnus makes even more sense when the Leaper Demon King helps the Greedy Man, despite the Greedy Man betraying everyone. He still helps people escape Satakal's hunger, even if he has to work with Sep.

I find it interesting that the Redguards see Mundus as a loophole around the Walkabout (and thus avoiding Satakal's hunger) while the Nord's portray Mundus as being destroyed by Alduin after Alduin turns the Leaper Demon King into Dagon. Which raises something interesting: If Magnus was turned into Dagon in a previous kalpa, who created the sun in this kalpa?
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sally R
 
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Post » Mon May 16, 2011 5:16 pm

I thought the redgurads saw Mundus as a prison Satakal created in order to catch the spirits even easier. Also, the Redguards seem to have their version of Sithis, maybe Padomay, known as "The Hum."
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Music Show
 
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Post » Mon May 16, 2011 10:18 pm

I thought the redgurads saw Mundus as a prison Satakal created in order to catch the spirits even easier. Also, the Redguards seem to have their version of Sithis, maybe Padomay, known as "The Hum."


Sep created Mundus because he was lazy and didn't want to help Tall Papa anymore.

The Hum appears to be Anuiel.
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/morrowind-monomyth
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Petr Jordy Zugar
 
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Post » Mon May 16, 2011 10:39 pm

Bleh, I hate the Yokudan mythology, it's so damn confusing!
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Adam Baumgartner
 
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Post » Mon May 16, 2011 5:43 pm

Bleh, I hate the Yokudan mythology, it's so damn confusing!


I'm actually starting to like it.
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u gone see
 
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Post » Mon May 16, 2011 3:22 pm

Me too, now that it's making some shred of sense.
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Johanna Van Drunick
 
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