What he is saying, though not expressed in the right way, is a vision I share as well. There's not enough history in TES (although you find lots of books by historians, but not enough to get to well grounded conclusion), as defined as scientifically inclined discipline, that is rigurous and consistent with known facts (facts as defined after the scientific revolution). What there is is a lot of "accounts", and conflicting at that. (and this is not at all bad; though sometimes it makes rewarding narrative difficult, its an interesting quirk of the series and one I dont under appreciate at all)

The creation of the Universe is not explained AT ALL; what's explained are the various creation MYTHS of the different religions, and how these tie to the world views and beliefs (and ultimately, the shape the gods take in their cult and lives), of the different races.

With 1 real world book? Hahaha. No, it does not.

And those who have "read parts of the ES lore" are the authorities.


Being mentioned once or twice in the story in Oblivion? And you're the one facepalming?


WHAT!? What do you think "lore" is? I don't understand how you could possibly think that besides pure ignorance. Everything you just said is mind blowing and I can't take it seriously.


When the hell is lore measured by real world books? Ridiculous.


What no what is happening in this thread

THE CREATION OF THE UNIVERSE IS EXPLAINED IN GREAT DETAIL. The creation myths stem from the memories of every mortal on Tamriel from the time that they were created. Yes, each has their own bias but they're all essentially the same exact story.

Not at all actually. Elder Scrolls has more lore than most games I can think of. If you're interested in games with shallow lore, look at the Fable series. The only game that I've played that could touch Elder Scrolls in terms of lore may be Halo surprisingly.

Thats the thing. There isnt a single story. What you said is just one version of it. (the Imperial version)

That's one version of the story. Others say that he didn't trick them, but rather persuaded them, and their murder of him was a betrayal. Others say he used force and they rebelled.
All three and more are true, because (mythopoeic nature of the stories aside) the world has been destroyed and remade many times, and Lorkhan/Shor has surely used many methods in commissioning its construction.

Is it? Well I guess we'll just have to wait and see until the game comes out. Oh, hold on... that's what I've been saying this entire time.

Halo has tons more lore than TES, Infiniteley more.

As does; LOTR, D&D, Starcraft, Warcraft, Star Wars, Fallout, Battletech, Warhammer and Warhammer 40k, just about any fictional universe.

As well as Mass Effect, and Half-Life,

We'll have to wait for the game to see the specifics, but unless the devs completely retcon a MASSIVE body of literature and thematic streams, Lorkhan MUST be a significant part of the story.
(And we KNOW they won't do that, because a) it would be absurd, and b ) they've already included those themes in the Wall shown in the first trailer)

You are just completely, utterly wrong.

Apparently, the Aedra seem to suffer from massive cases of split personality disorder. So, who's to say what really happened... (Well, except for the Bethesda employee's that write the lore.)

Lore never mattered much? Really now because I just thought the previous games were based off of nothing at all and all those books in the games are just filler that are not worth reading or contain no knowledge at all of the other provinces and or legends that bleed into past games and current games and more than likely Skyrim and future games.

In Danger Dan's defense, Shor really hasn't been involved in the story at all. Sure, he's "present" in the same way that the ground is present beneath your feet, but he's not a plot element in the least. He's never been in any of the games except for his heart in Morrowind. When people say they want to see him involved, they mean nothing but divine intervention. Something visible, something tangible, and something with an identity. His heart was in Morrowind, but it was a goal, a tool, not an entity. It doesn't necessarily have to be similar to how Akatosh shows up at the last minute in Oblivion to defeat Mehrunes Dagon, but it could be divine guidance like Azura in Morrowind. Daedra tend to play an active role due to their chaotic nature which makes them more involved. Aedra on the other hand, none but Akatosh have ever been involved. And Lorkhan is in some gray zone in the middle of both of them.

And I suppose you think Lorkhan played a significant role in Oblivion too. Whatever dude, you're going to believe whatever you want to believe anyway. I just hope they don't go rewriting anything for your sake. Wouldn't want you to have a mental breakdown.


This is literally exactly what I am saying. There is no arguement.

No, no, no no.

LOTR and Star Wars are the only ones of those that are demonstrably more extensive than TES, and those are the absolute paragons of epic fantasy. D&D surpasses it in volume, but not in depth.

Fallout? Fallout?!. Please. I love the Fallout series, but its lore and universe aren't even a hundredth of The Elder Scrolls'.

Gah, I don't know why I'm even arguing with you, you clearly don't know the first thing about TES lore.

If the OP is asking if Lorkhan will appear in the flesh or anything like that, then just look up at night and you'll see his corpse in the sky. Other than that, no, he won't be appearing like Azura or Akatosh. He's dead to the world. But he's a huge part of Oblivion. The plot of Oblivion would have never happened if not for Lorkhan.

It's even heavily implied that every main character is a Shezzarine. It's heavily implied that the entire goal of the series is to reinstate Lorkhan to Mundus.

Just because he isn't in-your-face like Dagon or Akatosh or Azura does not mean he isn't playing a direct role in the integrity of the entire story of the series. The lore goes deeper than just what you see on the surface.

Uhh, dude...

Although I do like fallout better than Oblivion simply because it has headshots, how the hell does Fallout have more lore then ES?
I haven't read most of ES lore, and it's way more then what I have seen from Fallout...

While you are trying to be sarcastic, it's not that far from the truth. Lore was pretty much absent in Arena, it was 'Kill the evil wizard!' generic fantasy that was never really big.

Daggerfall, first actual noticing of the series. 90 books, all big print. Only a few offer intresting tidbits of lore. But the warp of the west... yeah, that was a horrible lame patchwork job which shows the complete disregard for a working lore. Seriously, that makes no sense and is really just a big "Lol JK!"

Morrowind, a highly succesful game. More tidbits of lore.

Ahh, Oblivion. I'm sure all of the lore buffs were so ready to explore Cyrodills lush jungles in HD... wait, what? No jungles whatsoever, even though thats what the lore said it was? Hmm, lore must matter a lot to bethesda.
And shivering isles. The biggest lore buff in the world had no idea what we might find because the lore has no information on the daedric realms beyond 2 vague description sentences.

Fair enough. While it IS entirely impossible to make a TES story without Lorkhan, especially this story, his involvement is definitely not overt. "ground under your feet" is a good way of putting it.

(And YES, Dan, Lorkhan was very, very significant in Oblivion. His significance was just subtle. The Rebel/King archetype he embodies and his cloven duality with Akatosh were of tantamount importance to the plot of Oblivion, not to mention the Knights of the Nine add-on which revolved completely around Lorkhan.)

So lore to you is in-depth descriptions of landscapes?

Disclaimer:

I have already read pretty much every page on the UESP wiki. I think I have a right to criticize the lore.

You don't. UESP is where you go for game information, not lore information. UESP is even relatively famous for having inaccuracies and you can even look around now and see that they're trying to clean up lore-related issues that are just plain wrong on their site.

Precisely. But I guess this is too subtle for some people to see. I just wish they'd either make an effort, or at least shut their mouths and hide their ignorance.

Well, if skyrim turned out to be a bunch of sunny beaches, yeah, that would be kinda a kick to the lores nuts.
Let's not forget the complete invention of Suthat-Rayes for Morrowind.

Lore Buffs "Were's my kitty men?"

My understanding of this is that Lorkhan has become Nirn. This way Lorkhan will have an appearance (as always), it will be the land under your feet, the air in your lungs, the sight in your eyes... and so on.

So according to you, the story is only good if it stays static through the entire series and is never expanded on?

Oh and by the way, not that it matters but there IS more than one real world book. There are two printed versions of The Pocket Guide to the Empire that came with Redguard and the Oblivion collectors edition. Aside from that, there are hundreds of in-game books. Why does it matter if there is a real world copy or not?