What's worse is there's some good perks but to get to them you need to get some useless ones first, not great when perks are limited anyway.

Disintegrate instantly vaporized when they hit 15% health; freezeblazt paralyzed them at 20% help making them easy to finish, or something to that effect.

Basically, the perks just speed up kills; more efficiency in killing. So there is some use in that. For most enemies it makes little difference, but it can matter on harder stuff I would suppose, or else big groups of enemies.

I do love the game.

But this.

The game is still good though. And mods will add back some complexity to the diminish the CoD factor.

As long as Beth keeps releasing an SDK we have nothing to worry about; and I actually laud them for making the gameplay more fun and interactive.

I just wish we could keep the complexity by default. :shrug:

both the perks and the level up system are total garbage

My biggest issues revolves around the fact it's a sandbox game that doesn't really allow you to do whatever you want without first playing and learning game mechanics then restarting as a new character with the proper build for what you want to do. To me that is unforgivable in an RPG. Having to redo content is big no-no to me in a game that relies on story.

At the same time the perk system is fairly restrictive in that if you want all the perks for your desired build you often have to go train something completely unrelated to level up to get more perks. Which is a rather strange concept when they could have you keep gaining exp off an already 100 level skill for no additional benefit other than more exp towards a level.

Sure, some perks are less useful.. but damn OP, have you even used silent roll? Its a great perk for stealth characters!

Posts went away.

If all you are going to do is spam post a quote and add +1, please don't bother. If you are going to troll, flame, and flamebait by bashing a platform or the people who use it, please don't bother.

The first part of your complaint could be remedied by gamesas letting us reset our perk points to undo perks that we experiemented with and didn't end up liking. Afterall, WoW has long had that feature where you can go to a trainer and re-spec for a fee. I find it odd that something like that wasn't implemented in Skyrim.

There was no problem with Attiributes except maybe trying to get Multipliers, yet People do FAR more calculating and thinking about this perk system than I personally ever had to with Attributes so I don't see how the "Less thinking, more playing" Argument ever held up, the Perk System restricts choices, while I like the Design, I don't think we need it in TES, I'm not one for Power gaming but I like to have the option to do so by working on my attributes over time and then my 40 or so Individual skills.

It was Freedom, something TES has always been about.

Restriction:
1 Choose between raising Health OR Stamina OR Magick by 10 and gain 1 perk point per level with 80 points maximum by end game out of 250 Perks.

Freedom:
Health, Fatigue, Magick all being raised by X amount each level based on their governing Attribute, with the ability to upgrade 3 Attributes by 1-5 points Each level, along with ones that increase Run Speed, Jump Height, Carry Weight and even your Overall "Luck in the game.
Along with Personality etc. that change how people Initially react to you and what they may or may not tell you. (EG. Disposition System) With your skills naturally acquiring perks as they level up.

There another thing I was also wondering, I know there are more levels to gain after lvl 50, but since they are harder to get I guess Bethesda's goal was to create your main build between 1-50.

At least half of the perk will be put in either offensive & devensive skills (armor, weapon and eventually block), then maybe put some into a supportive skill, like smithing, restoration or something like that, so here my problem: would anyone, any viable build be able to squeeze points into, let's say lockpicking, pickpocketing or speech to make them worth it and yet having enough perks in offensive/defensive skills to stand against the strongest foes of this game?
I simply can't see it, maybe a mage-thief hybrid somehow? would even a pure Thief class be viable for a lvl 50 build?

Oh, and to let you guys know, I played the Morrowind GOTY edtion on my Xbox 1st gen, I know consoles carry part of the blame of the "mainstreaming" of the latest Elder Scrolls games but I don't thing we should get all the blame of it, there are console gamers that enjoy deep, hard & complicated games,.

Here is a a few threads that discuss this which may interest OP:


http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?app=core&module=search&do=search&fromMainBar=1


EDIT: There are more than 1000 threads that discuss at least some aspect of "perk system"

bethesda went with the insane idea of trying to make a dozen or so perks comprise the entire customization and progression aspect of any given skill. having perks for linear stat increases, little bonuses like extra pockets, and entirely new abilities, all costing the same and part of the same system, is just a fool's game. its too much for any one gameplay mechanic too handle and still maintain some semblance of structure and balance.

if beth is committed to this style of development, they need to separate the different kinds of perks available to you. have points for things like armsman and separate points for things like extra pockets. fallout can get away with having everything in one perk system because with its leveling system it never matters enough that intense training is better than bloody mess. in TES were the universe makes itself stronger because you went on a shopping spree and leveled your speechcraft, you need a clear and balanced way to develop your character, not a single branch where the next step could be a definite 20% increase in damage or a new effect added to an attack you can never hit anything with anyway.

The problem with perks like 'Fist of Steel' is that other, more desirable perks are on the far side of them on the perk tree so you can't avoid being forced to waste a perk slot on them to become eligible for the perks you actually want.

I'm tempted to console myself a new perk point as a sort of 'refund' every time I've forced to accept one I know I'll never use. So far I haven't yet, but I'm tempted.

How is that more Freedom?

Don't you have to CHOOSE those attributes from the 8?

Oh you can max out all of them in the end, somehow that makes it a better RPG, I guess. I mean restrictions in an RPG? Bah

The "Savage Strike" decapitating perk in the 1H tree is almost as much fun.

This is wrong. Your one hand skill will raise damage but destruction skill doesn't raise damage at all. All it does is lower mana cost. This is why you see all the threads about destruction being underpowered

They need more variety and shouldnt only focus on skills. Fallout did them much better. It was fun picking perks in fallout. Now it feels more like a chore with barely any interesting perks to choose from.

Conceptually I like perks, and heck a lot of perks are cool. But most of the perks are poorly designed and the perk system is poorly designed as implemented. I'd rather have them then not have them, but it could have been much better.

i wish they had done it fallout 3 style where you just pick the ones you want as long as you meet the skill requirements. for example i have to use the console to remove the light step perk because i like avoiding traps and activating them when draugr are next to them. i often play dungeons using only traps to kill as many mobs as i can. its a blast. unfortunatly if you want to get to the high end sneak stuff you are forced to pick the light step perk. thank God im on PC. the useless ones like lockpick and pickpocket could be fixed by simply making it virtually impossible to pick higher end pockets or locks unless you have the perks that make it easier, i hesitate to have all out restrictions on them like fallout 3 but that might be the only way to do it.

It's best not to play for the perks.
Just play, like you did in past games, leveling up skills.
then, "oh look, I can pick a perk, cool, I guess it does put a bit of differentiation to my character, so why not"

Many people are putting too much emphasis on them. Like that is the ultimate goal or something.

DOnt agree because to get the maximum benefit of stats you needed to min/max, perks are straight values.

You're right, sorry. I misrepresented what I was saying by including destruction in the damage portion. Except that if you think about it, the fact that it reduces mana cost means that I can use more spells before I run out of mana which in turn puts out more damage. So I'm still right.

What I actually meant is that every skill gains a bonus from being leveled up, regardless of which perks you choose. 1H and 2H up your damage the higher the skill is. Destruction, and I think every other spell group (I know they have a bonus, but I'm not sure what they are because I don't use them), decreases the amount of mana each of your spells cost, which in turn means you can output more damage before you need to use a potion. Heavy and Light armor both increase your AR the higher they get. Smithing/Enchanting/Alchemy all make your products more powerful just from leveling up the skills. Lockpicking, Sneak and Pickpocket each make their own action easier. Speech allows you to persuade and intimidate people easier, as well as giving you a bonus to how well you sell. Block increases your chance to block damage as well as how much damage you block. So EVERY SINGLE SKILL gives you a bonus as you level it up, which means that you don't need to have tons of perks in combat specific trees just to succeed.

I have two perks in combat trees. Those two perks are Novice and Apprentice Destruction, because when I first started playing my first character I thought they seemed really useful and they were until I hit about level 10. After that it didn't seem necessary to put any perks in other combat trees. All of my perks are in other trees, my main character does just fine without combat perks.

I'm sick of everyone complaining about how bad this perk system is. Bethesda tried a new system, they wanted to see if they could improve their game, they've made a load of amazing games for us to play and created a rich world for us to enjoy. Occasionally they're bound to do something that we don't necessarily like, and then when people come back with constructive criticism, that's fine. Coming onto the boards svcks right now though because every day there are like thirteen new threads about how people hate the perk system and that TES has been dumbed down for the console generation. Sorry that some of us don't hundreds and even thousands of dollars to buy new generation computers every couple of years. Although I do have a computer that can run Skyrim, I had the same junker computer for five or six years before I could afford this one. It could barely run the original Starcraft and buying a console was MUCH cheaper than buying a computer.

Sorry, I ranted, couldn't help it, but I'm done now. I'm sorry for those of you who suffer having the game ruined because you're so upset about the perk system.

I liked Oblivions perks better. No choice, but you could get them all.

I also liked Attributes, simply for the control it gave you over your leveling.

Fists of steel is just logical. Heavy Steel hitting your face is much different than fleshy bones. There is a reason iron knuckles are outlawed in some "real life" regions.

Silent roll should have been replaced with a quick sneaky sprint that accomplishes the same thing. I still think it is a fair perk regardless though, because it enhances the speed of your sneaking.

Your argument on banishing your summons is pointless. It is just like complaining that you can kill your summons in one hit a greatsword because you fully perked your Two-Hand skill tree. You need to play responibly when you wield greater power around your summons.

Exactly! That's how I play, and I think I'm enjoying the game very much, almost too much, without any strategy guides or something. Played a thief for 50 hours, and put lots of points in stuff like pickpocketing and speech, but I only checked which perks are available after each level-up. I didn't plan anything, just roleplayed a charismatic thief, and the rest came by itself.