Well it's better than a bunch of genocidal military maniacs. And a "history" of is a whole lot different from doing it right now.

Lyons' BOS could barely garrison parts of DC.......now the situation is stable enough for Maxson to be able to travel all the way from DC to Boston with more military strength than Lyons could muster in total.

There is actually no evidence how the people of the Capitol Wasteland view Maxson's Brotherhood beyond the large numbers of volunteers apparently joining his ranks.

It would help if you read a bit of the Lore of the Brotherhood of Steel, the Elder of each Chapter doesn't get to rename the organisation based on their gender, Sarah Lyons either died before becoming Elder (depending on the outcome of F3) or soon after her Fathers death.....that in turn led to a succession of failures until Maxson turned it around and by any measurement Maxson turned a struggling almost defunct organisation into a strong enough military power to hold DC and project a second force into Boston.

I was the one that gave the Brotherhood a fresh water supply and the logistics to actually build something meaningful in the Capital Wasteland, not Arthur Maxson. It was me and Sentinel Sarah that built that infrastructure, not the snot nosed kid who couldn't do anything other that recite lines from the Brotherhood textbook and talk about how much he liked Sarah Lyons.

Not to take away what Arthur did for the Brotherhood, but he wasn't in the same situation as Lyons was when he first came to the Wasteland. Arthur inherited a political mess because of lack of leadership after the death of Sarah, but he still had the Citadel and Project Purity and a strong footing in DC that was carved there by Lyons.

Arthur was successful because of Lyons not in spite of Lyons.

I ma BoS right now but I'll be leaving soon. The reason is, that apart from the Nazi attitude, they are just awful fighters. I wander the world and those fools show up all over. They almost always lose a Vertibird and some guys on the ground and I'll wipe the whole place with little trouble.

I just don't want anyone to associate me with such a badly led and poorly operated force, so I'll have to leave soon.

Not a fan of feral ghouls, but I don't have a problem with the Sups. They pretty much say what I'm thinking on the train every day ALL the time.

I don't have a problem with Danse personally. He's just misguided in his factional allegiances.

Danse should tell the CWBOS to take a hike and join up with the Midwestern Brothers. He'd be making a fine choice of allies then. All are one under The Calculator.

True. I often stop and watch the Sups stomp their butt. For a bunch of guys so well armored and armed, they can't handle a bunch of feral ghouls (police station) or 1/2 a dozen Sups (not even high level ones) despite all their armory AND air support? Please. Even the BoS in F3 or NV was better at combat than these guys. Apparently all these guys know is lobing some nukes at them and praying for the best.

It's sad that, on my last playthrough, I happened to show up at the station in full power armor (45 only) and wiped the floor with the small band of ferals while Danse and his "injured" little crew just complained. And, after saving them he threatens me? What a putz.

Not really, Maxson inherited a split organisation, a demoralised Brotherhood after a succession of failed Elder and a Brotherhood faction organised as the personal following of the Lyons and their successors......really its more the arrival competent King after a succession of failed ones. The idea that Maxson inherited anything other than a cluster[censored] isn't backed up by the lore in the game.

Honestly in real life I'd hate the guy, but in the context of the game he is just the leader that the East Coast Brotherhood needed after the earlier attempts to protect DC while gaining nothing from the population but poorly trained local recruits to replace the veterans. The Brotherhood in F3 made no sense since they were not self sustaining enough to survive Lyons' ideals without actually having a civilian base to sustain that effort.

Its funny, because The Brotherhood in Fallout 4 are worse pilots than the Enclave in Fallout 3. Which is saying something, because The Enclave weren't exactly great either.

But at least they did some logical things like quick hit and run carpet bombing and strafing attacks. The Brotherhood just hovers their verti's around like they're just begging to be shot down.

It is backed by the entire Fallout 3 game.

It is more along the lines of the founder of a great nations death being followed by an era of bad management. Then Arthur coming along and returning things to even greater than they originally were.

But don't pretend like traveling across the entire country and setting up a solid base in the [censored] hole that was Washington DC was some nothing task. Without that solid groundwork Arthur would be nothing. Lyons made the Citadel what it is and Lyons made Project Purity happen. Without those two things, Arthur would have no standing to start expanding the Brotherhood into something bigger.

To be fair, at least minuteman vertibird pilots dont crash nearly as often.

But i wish you could outfit and finance your minutement to have better equipment XD

Even as a split faction, Lyon's Brotherhood had successfully wiped out the Enclave and had become the dominate power of the Capital Wasteland, along with securing the hearts of the people through a propaganda war fought by Three Dog and the spoils of Project Purity. If nothing else, Maxon inherited a faction that the ordinary folks liked and wanted to join, all the neat toys the BoS made/stole from the Enclave, a fortified, defensible base of operations, the intel of where the Super Mutants were being made in the first place (assuming Lyon's failed to actually wipe it out before his death) and the name that would bring the Outcasts back into the fold and would ensure loyalty from the other members.

You ask me, he got quite a lot.

Personally, I do not like the current brotherhood and wish there was a option to bring back Lyon faction

That is only too true! Danse's ideals are wasted on the Brotherhood. Hey, he likes it when I help out settlers, maybe I make a Minuteman out of him!!

Oh no! Not the Calculator! Danse, don't listen to him!!

I'm surprised that Maxson hasn't learned more from Elder Lyons, who practically raised him. Plus, Maxson is still so young and he has such a huge responsibility on his shoulders. Maybe, he will change some in the years to come.

Defeat of the Enclave was accomplished by the Lone Wanderer, Lyons' Pride (the competent part of Lyons' Brotherhood) and Liberty Prime, the Brotherhood as a whole were unequipped, outclassed and outgunned.

Well according to the new lore, Elder Lyons died, then Sarah died in battle and was followed by a succession of failed leaders so local support probably waned over that time since its unlikely that the Brotherhood was in much condition to help the locals while in renewed turmoil. Maxson's deeds 'apparently' (how much of that is propaganda is unclear) convinced the Outcasts back into the fold and then reorganised the East Coast Brotherhood back into something similar to the rest of the Brotherhood, getting rid of the Royal Bodyguard Unit, restoring the Squire system, gaining better equipment and expanding the Brotherhood's influence, but retained the one useful idea Lyons had in continuing the recruitment of new blood into the ranks.

I'd agree that Lyons despite himself left a good legacy, it just wasn't left to Maxson but the succession of unnamed failures that preceded him......how much of that legacy was left once Maxson took power is unclear.

I'd agree that Lyons' match across the US is worth celebrating, but his actions once there were at times moronic. He in effect tried to make his faction into a standing army to protect the locals while failing to establish the civilian base necessary to sustain the effort, he in effect sold his followers down the river as they fought and died in the DC ruins while achieving next to nothing. They simply were not organised or equipped to be the Capitol Wasteland's protectors.

His legacy is rather saved by the Lone Wanderer and the Enclave......even there his reorganisation of his faction into his personal playground (including a royal bodyguard unit) meant that upon his and Sarah's death there was no established core of competent senior command staff in the wings and we have years of turmoil before Maxson and the fact is that Maxson is apparently the founder of the East Coast Brotherhood nation since now there are reference to BOS members dying for their country.

If the East Coast Brotherhood's new role is to be the regions standing army then it must have a civilian population base to supply that army, Maxson apparently understands this while Lyons never really did.

Or the next time there is a crisis in leadership and they understandably fracture since they are in effect simply local armed settlers who are used to being supplied by the other settlers rather than an organised military force. They are one step away from Raiders in that they will expect to be supplied by others and in extremis would find themselves preying on the population again.

Edit: Well I'm off to play Fallout 4.

Hey now the Calculator doesn't judge. Mutant, ghoul, human, deathclaw, robot, synth. All are welcome into https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxXJFGh1qng&t=3m2s.

One land. One Calculator. One Brotherhood.

can you be BOS without having to destroy the railroad and/or minutemen?

can you go railroad or minutemen without turning BOS hostile?

i wanted to go minutemen for my first playthrough but to be honest im scared of all the [censored] ive heard with continious babysitting of settlers which would annoy the hell out of me, so im going railroad as it suits my stealth character, i like their music, and its kinda deus ex'y which is cool.

but i dont want to turn BOS hostile as ive always liked them, they were good to me in FO2 when they hooked me up after giving them a copy of vertibird plans and tactics was just cool (r lee ermy was funny as hell!) so i dont want to have to kill any of them.

BOS seem a bit crazy to me in this version and i wish being a pre war lawyer i could have the option to shove the "i know what ad victoriam" means in that smarmy ahole reeses face.

Id prob rather join them though if i didnt have to fight minutemen and/or railroad

Hmm...

You never have to destroy the Minutemen to be BOS.

As far as the Railroad, you just have to avoid a certain conversation with Kells in order to stay on good terms with the Railroad. I finished the BOS path while still being good friends with both the Minutemen and Railroad.

You can go Railroad up to a certain point, but if you don't want to turn the BOS hostile you will have to ditch a certain mission at the end. When you report to the Railroad that you failed they will pretty much say they are out of ideas and that you should go talk to the Minutemen for help.

So then you go to the Minutemen ending while on good terms with the Railroad.

The Minutemen aren't really a faction, it is two characters. It is a good path for those who like to be alone and do everything themselves. I haven't quite finished that route, but I don't think they ever fight the BOS from the route I took (which was being part of the Railroad)

Best info I can give you without putting in any spoilers... I will tell you that the game will give you a message before you make the Brotherhood hostile if you take the Railroad path, so don't worry about it, just stop when you get to the message.

cool thanks!

I've played 300 hours, and I'm a "member" of Minutepeople, Brothers of Steel, and the Do-Gooders of Rail, as well as the Nefarious Synth Lovers . . . so far, I haven't pissed off anyone, but I'm not more than halfway through any of them, less than that for most questlines.

So, if one does face a choice at some point (which in my opinion is good) the fact is: you can play A LOT, and be a "Quadruple Agent" or whatever you want to consider it.

I like the evolution of the Capital Wasteland BoS as it is but i hate how little explanation we are given. Barely any mention of the specifics regarding the Lyons family demise, and absolutely no mention of any other named BoS character from F3. No Casdin, Tristen, Lyons' Pride members, Rothchild, etc. The only person from the BoS to show up is that annoying little kid who has become the "messiah" of the BoS by fanning the flames of racism and xenophobia in it's ranks but with no actual mention of HOW he did that. I am almost 100% sure that it is propaganda and Maxson has done nothing except claim to be competent. I think he is a figurehead that the BoS has put on a pedestal to stand for...something regardless of what little he has "achieved"