If you want realism, set you game on novice and not wear any armor.

tell that to the kid who caught a stray bullet blowing half his brain out (literally)
cuz he's still alive and kicking (in a wheelchair with a severe speech impediment but still)
or that guy who's angle grinder blew up in his face leaving a huge chunk of metal imbedded deep into his skull
he drove himself to the hospital for crying out loud

I know this is all anecdotal evidence
but as the guy you're quoting pointed out
guns do a lot more damage than arrows and people have survived shots to the dome
it would highly depend on which area of the brain would be affected but not all of it is used for vital functions or motor skills
lot of it is stuff like memory or speech, not really required to do battle

that being said
it's an RPG not a shooter
one shotting any enemy would wreck the gameplay beyond recognition and would put even the weakest bows among the most powerful weapon in the game

Yeah TOTALLY, I mean, games like Mount And Blade, totally not an rpg with action elements.

I mean having Hea;lth TOTALLY means that you can't make "headshots" do more dmg/have a chance to kill depending on your skills or anything.


Not having location based dmg is one of the main negative things to TES ombat system imio. They want it to feel likle combat is visceral and give ht epalyers control, but they don't allow your ability to aim to affect anthing.

If it would be too easy for you, it would also be too easy for your opponents and hopefully, difficulty would even out. Combat would become more tactical, with cover being more important.

Extra damage isn't so much a priority for me, but there ought to be some effect. They keep talking about how they want to improve the combat in every new iteration, but they don't implement anything is straightforward as basic locational effects. I mean, they just came off of developing Fallout, I'd have thought it might have been more strongly considered.

For instance:
-Strikes to the body stagger like normal.
-Strikes to the head of an increased chance of staggering or stunning an enemy.
-Strikes to the legs have a chance of slowing an enemy (critical for archers when you can't put an enemy down in one shot).
-Strikes to the arms have a chance of disarming the opponent.

Limbs could "break" which results in a permanent reduction in things like damage, accuracy, and speed. None of this actually requires damage modifiers. You could still randomize the damage if you wanted. It does, however, make strategic combat options available to the player.

EDIT: And I mean, it's kinda silly because a lot of these effects are already in the game: Disarm shouts, frost magic slowing movement, staggers, etc. It's just a matter of implementing them in other areas.

The day they change damage to localized is the day I stop playing.

The TES games are the last games standing that offer an enjoyable play experience that bases skill on the CHARACTER'S ability, not the PLAYER.

That's what a ROLE PLAYING GAME is.

At first I didn't like the "head shot = no kill". But after playing for a little more, I do. You sneak up on someone, shoot them in the head with an arrow. Now that they know you are there you'd better make sure all the next arrows you fire at them hit their mark or you will be dead. Adds a bit of nervousness to being an archer.

Except it doesn't, at least not entirely. That changed when they removed the hit-roll (and arguably real-time, player-controlled dodging has always been a valid strategy in the series). So why not implement a proper player-based system rather than one that's two thirds of the way there. The damage is still randomized, it's just randomized under new conditions. Body shots being between X and Y, whereas head shots are between 1.5X and 1.5Y, for example.

Why are we even having this discussion? Everything in life is a matter of probabilities, there will always be those 0.001% cases that you can point to saying it's possible, that doesn't mean it's likely enough to make it relevant.

How many people were incapacitated from a bullet than went through their skulls and how many weren't incapacitated? I'd wager the ratio would make your case insignificant.

Even if you think an arrow going through someone's head shouldn't kill all the time, can't we at least agree that it should kill MOST of the time? I mean, what do you think are the chances that you'd keep fighting like nothing happened after an arrow breaks your skull, cuts parts of your brain and creates internal bleeding in it? I'm not a doctor but I'd bet... not many.

i am not sure the after death location of the arrows is where they actually hit. shot two arrows into some bandit from close range and into the body. i didnt notice where they actually hit but when he died he had both arrows through his head. and the shot though the eye is way too common not to be deliberate ont he part of the game engine.

Both you and the other person arguing against my original statement are wrong. Yes, it will kill you. Yes, it will incapacitate you. However, anyone who has been in combat or worked in the emergency medical field can tell you that almost no one dies/becomes incapacitated immediately. When you sustain such an injury your body going into "flight or fight" mode. Meaning a few things. One, most people [censored] themselves. Two, the body will lose fine motor control, but continue on with improved functions related to "fighting" or "fleeing."

Your statement of probabilities is true, however it actually goes in the opposite direction in this instance. Yes, bullets will likely tear enough brain matter that almost all functions shut down in a matter of seconds. This highly depends on the type of gun/bullet used though. An arrow in particular in a low velocity projectilve. Meaning it ONLY damages that eye, a very small portion of the brain, and the back of the skull (if it even makes it through all that).

Finally, there is also a huge difference between "fat white kid" (you guys) getting hit in the head with an arrow and a battle-hardened bandit living by the blade and a bit of fur armor.

I don't care to get super specific, especially considering the sources of "not a doctor" and "troll." However, feel free to read "On Killing" and "On Combat" by LT. Col Grossman if you would like to be educated on the physical and mental affects of high stress situations. Also, feel fre to look up any number of case studies involving head injuries and low velocity trauma.

If this was Battlefield 3, We'd have Bandits running around with the sun attached to their Daggers and Archers camping across Skyrim, launching Arrows from a Medieval Mortar Device.

And what's the deal with drinking potions to heal? Like any liquid in a phial could make me instantly recover from mortal cuts, bites and burns in real life. And don't even get me started on being able to jog across the entire world of skyrim in heavy armor non-stop for days without needing to eat, sleep or rest. Pfft, games, amirite?

are you thick?
I said it was anecdotal and highly Dependant on chance

THAT BEING SAID
it would break the game
why even bother with anything but a bow when you can kill anything by shooting it in the head?

if you were to make a case for some added bonus depending on where you hit (E.G extra damage for the head, chance of disarm for the arms, stumble for the legs, bleed damage for the torso etc)
we'd have something to argue about
but saying headshots should be one hit kills is just silly
even if it's just most of the time

oh no a really tough draugr deathlord, shoot it in the head, it dies
and if it doesn't die and kills you, reload and try again since the majority of the time it would die

it just doesn't make any sense

Hey, that is realistic. You know what else is realistic?
When I'm getting destroyed by an ice wraith, a bear or a frost troll and I stop time for about one minute to pull something out of my pocket.....something that will save my life.............can you guess what it is?

Well, head shots arguably wouldn't work on undead. Or at least, it's not clear to me how undead function in the Elder Scrolls. I don't think I've read the relevant lore on them. A headshot may still have debilitating effects in the sense that you've damaged their ability to see you, but I'm not sure it is significantly harmful to their health.

Obviously any sort of locational damage would depend very much on the type of creature you're fighting. Things like Giants might have especially tough brain-cases, spiders would be less susceptible to limb damage, etc.

My friends aren't able to take even half as many gashes to the chest as those bandit chiefs. Even when I set the difficulty slider in my head to master they still go down in one or two swings. Bethesda wasn't even close on that one. My next test will be to see how long my friends can survive being lit on fire, but I'm running out of friends.

Yes, thanks for making that request. Mods will be out and all little annoyances fixed in no time. Headshot kills will for one make pure archer builds viable without having to resort to sneak attack bonus and melee weapons all the time. Can't wait.

Man, the density of weirdness is just overwhelming here... Half of the arguments don't make sense by themselves, and have conclusions that are even more random and unrelated to the bizarre premisses...


How so ?


What is the link between "RPG" and "not realistic" ? Especially as, most of the time, it would actually tends to be the opposite.


I won't even start about how taking ultra-exceptionnal examples of people being shot in the head and surviving as an argument of having foes routinely having half of their brain blasted apart and still fighting, because I think I've already made a hole in the wall with the rest of the thread.

It's an RPG.

Level 1 character walks into dungeon with crappy bow; Sees level 50 bandit boss with 5000hp in the distance; Aims bow at head and kills him. lololololololol. The end.

Why should progression simply mean ginormous amounts of health rather than the ability to avoid taking damage and dealing damage more effectively?

Beyond that, the difference should be that a level one character shouldn't be able to effectively hit an enemy from a great distance, not hitting an enemy, but only managing to leave a scratch.

There is. Also I believe there is a .ini edit that removes this "auto-aim". I'll find it later if I can.


But lets get some things straight first.

If you are shot in the head, IN REAL LIFE, you have around a 5% chance to live (that's being generous, according to government findings it's actually .8%). So suppose you were shot in the head, cool you're a 5%'er, most likely your ass will be strapped to a bed for the rest of your life since most likely you will have suffered some insane brain damage. You know bullets sorta chew up brain matter right?

And about realism... this is an RPG. TES has always attempted to keep the player immersed and the game flowing. Me shooting 15 arrows into someones skull breaks immersion for me. Oh cool I made another Chia pet acupuncture ragdoll.



Would it really be that hard to aim your crosshair with an axe at someones face and cleave it in half? Stop looking at things in a vacuum.


I'm going to go ahead and continue playing the game instead wasting brain cells here. Creation Kit can't come soon enough. :foodndrink:

Other games have shown how this could be done well IMO.

Head shots should not provide an instant kill but rather extra damage, e.g. 2x damage. It could replace the 2x sneak damage that currently happens.

What exactly are you suggesting? You want fighting and dodging mechanics similar to or better than most of the strictly action-oriented games out there? Bandits should be matrixing arrows as they run at you?


Doesn't have to be a great distance. In real life it would be easy to blind-side someone with an arrow to the back of the head even if you're a novice archer and he's the best swordsman in the state. Hell, it'd be at least possible to get him in the face as he closes the distance on you. Realistic weapon fighting is anti-climatic and boring.

I know thisis the strandard reply the harcore rpgers give anytime anyone raises the issue.
I say,

Let Todd Howard come up with a system that addresses both character progession and locational damage.
It can be done, i'm sure.
Let him burn his brain cells.