Hi All,

Apologies if this has already been discussed but I couldn't find anything easily on it (though I do see a lot on Perks and Skills so it may have gotten tied in there at some point) but in the E3 presentation did anyone else notice during the character creation that they only gave 21 points for distribution between the 7 stats with 1 point already allocated meaning 28 points in total, making that 4 points per stat (if you went as balanced at possible)? Does this concern anyone like it does me, forcing us to have a weakness from the start?

While this may in fact add a new game style for me and change the way I approach fallout and offer some replay-ability to the game I have to admit I am one of those people who does nothing in fallout until I've grinded up the levels and maxed out the "Intensive Training" Perk and got all my stats above 7 and grabbed all the stat bobble heads (FO3). The reason for concern being that a lot of conversation options are linked to stats (High Intelligence being the most common I think) and I don't like missing out.

How does everyone else feel about this?

P.S. I do recognize there is a possibility that starting stat points amounts could be linked to difficulty settings but this would seem out of fashion with the previous games.

Thanks for reading,

Jokerahh

Edit:

Okay here's another point, in previous games a stat of 5 in a SPECIAL was recognized as a average, so a 5 in intelligence was average intelligence and a 7 was recognized as above average (which is why many SPECIAL triggers required 7 or higher) and anything below 5 was recognized as below average and if low enough punishing, (below 3 intelligence in the original game meaning you could only communicate in grunts which was funny, never tested on FO3 though?) so starting with only 4 in each (or one even lower to raise others) would mean being below average at the start of the game, does this not seem.... unusual that my protagonist is either all round below average or awful at one thing to be basic at another? I dunno seems odd to me if those rules from previous games are still followed.

Second point, what weakness would you then choose? and what would you improve?

I took the low starting stats to mean that we were going to get more opportunity to raise our SPECIAL stats over the course of the game. (Cybernetic implants?)

I've been playing Fallout Shelter, and all your new level 1 vault dwellers start with low SPECIAL stats, but high level unique characters have high stats. As you progress, you unlock training rooms to improve each of your SPECIAL stats. Not that this necessarily has to reflect anything FO4, but I'm taking it as a hint about how stats will work. Skills as we knew them are gone, SPECIAL has more influence over gameplay, and leveling up will bring some new ways of making our characters more powerful through improving our starting stats.

It being linked to difficulty I haven't seen mentioned before, could be interesting if that was it. Increased difficulty would come from being more grounded in reality, in the sense that the PC wouldn't be such a polymath and/or nigh-superhuman, à la hardcoe mode sorta, rather than just inflating incoming damage and enemy health.

Though I would prefer that (the numbers tweaking) combined with increasing stats as you progress.

Okay here's another point, in previous games a stat of 5 in a SPECIAL was recognized as a average, so a 5 in intelligence was average intelligence and a 7 was recognized as above average (which is why many SPECIAL triggers required 7 or higher) and anything below 5 was recognized as below average and if low enough punishing, (below 3 intelligence in the original game meaning you could only communicate in grunts which was funny, never tested on FO3 though?) so starting with only 4 in each (or one even lower to raise others) would mean being below average at the start of the game, does this not seem.... unusual that my protagonist is either all round below average or awful at one thing to be basic at another? I dunno seems odd to me if those rules from previous games are still followed.

Second point, what weakness would you then choose? and what would you improve?

I imagine that when you level, you will get to pick a perk. One of the perks you can pick will be something along the lines of 'Intense Training' that will allow you to raise SPECIAL. Individual perks will have a SPECIAL requirement as depicted on the chart seen in the garage in the trailer. So, as you level you will have to raise SPECIAL up to the point where you qualify for the perks you want.

Ya which means either they changed how it works or that svcks for me cause I'm awesome and thus do not conform to this whole "people have balanced strengths and weaknesses" thing

well, other people have said that they noticed the character in e3 was a pretty high level and only had like 3 extra points. i hope they don't let you level your special too much more than what you start with but most people are all around average, 5 more points at the start would make a lot more sense

I hope we can max them all out if we want.

I'm just hoping the representation of the SPECIAL is changed so that in early game I don't miss out on something because my PC is to dumb, blind as bat, weak, as resilient as a 99p Mr Whippy on a summers day, super unfortunate, slow or so un-charismatic they develop a stutter when talking to a member of the opposite six

This is what concerns me. Having 4 in all special stats would indicate that you're below average in everything.

I hope we can't. Defeats the entire point of having a stat system in the first place. Choices should actually matter.

I think that the starting stats will be lower because as we progress through the game we will have an opportunity to increase them more somehow, not to the max but just a noticeable increase as your level progresses, at least I hope this is the case. I don't really want a character that is either low in every stat or has one stat way above the rest while all the others suffer. I know in previous games you can't have all stats high, but they were at least easier to put points into when you were setting up a character because you could make each skill fairly well balanced. If they don't give us an option to increase our SPECIAL stats during the main gameplay (whether it be through some sort of genetic modification or some other kind of upgrade) I will be let down but I won't stop playing just because of it because it will just make it more of a challenge.

This entirely depends on level cap to me, if we have a cap at 20 or 30 like in previous BGS Fallout games then I hope we can't but if there is no level cap or is caps at 99 like in FO2 then I hope we can because having a infinite level or really high one adds the challenge of trying to perfect and max everything

I took it to mean that we'll have to specialize more. In New Vegas and 3 you could be the strongest individual in the wastes and be average in every other stat.

In this one you can still be the strongest person in the wasteland, but it will come at a cost.

I personally am REALLY a fan of this decision.

So which would you sacrifice and which would you improve?

Sacrifice a little of agility and a little of perception, and put it into intelligence and charisma.

I figure they are going to make 4 the new average.

Which makes sense for a fat and happy civilian just waking up from a 200 year nap.

Assuming you don't want to max all your Special stats which takes much of the fun out of replays, you don't need many more Special stat points.

You start with 28 or an average of 4.

If you can increase a stat one point with the its stat Bobblehead and the right piece of cyberware (its MIT with Synths, so yes there will be cyberware) then you can add 14 more stat points and have an average of 6.

That is a total of 42 stat points which works out to three stats at 10 and the remaining four at 3.

With the Perks having stat requirements you would have access to 42 of the 70 perks.

And access to all of the perks for three of the Special Stats.

You will need different stat builds and different play throughs to access all the perks (or use the console commands )

I don't know about you but I plan to play at least 3 play throughs of Fallout 4.

The Lone Survivor is going to play and feel very different each time because of the different stat builds and the perks available.

This is way better than F3 where by the end of the game the Lone Wanderer had maxed his skills and most of his stats and started to feel and play pretty much that same.

I mean it is hard to roleplay the brilliant antisocial four eyes computer wiz loner even with a 1 Charisma when you have a Speech skill of 100.

First line of the game "Your going to knock them dead at the veterans hall tonight honey" implying military career, implying above average in strength and agility and on top of this speaking so most likely an officers position implying above average intelligence and also speaking so good charisma to to be asked to speak.

Edit:

Got nuked, implying bad luck, the game is already choosing the stats for us haha

Me too.

And the quote "Fallout 4's narrative has a lot more branching paths and overlapping of "if that than this" than Fallout 3. They want the game to handle all the fail states of missions instead of forcing players to reload saves." makes it sound like Fallout 4 will be more like Deus Ex HR, where there were multiple way to accomplish each mission.

Probably endurance and charisma for agility, intelligence, and luck.

I like glass cannon characters. And I usually never play a smooth talker for my first character.

Or more like Fallout 1 and 2 where there where multiple ways to accomplish missions

This is what I suspect too. Having a low SPECIAL at the beginning kills two birds with one stone:

1) It provides room to grow so that character growth/progress is more perceivable to the player.

2) By giving you more SPECIAL points later on, it prevents players from creating "wrong builds" or having to start over with a different build. You would just slowly shift your playing styles as you got more points. I'm not saying this is necessarily good or bad, but it does reflect Beth's recent trend in game/character design.

Cool, I guess I'm invisible then. Bye to this topic

.... Okay, no offense was meant I just didn't have a response to your comments, apologies ???

I'm guessing that there will be the potential to raise your SPECIAL scores via Perks (or Perk tiers) as well as external means (like implants). Note that all 4s in SPECIAL would be a rather average, normal person and that super high scores should be VERY rare (9 is almost impossible to get and 10 is only possible via some abnormal means (implant, radioactive spider bite, etc.)