I completely agree with these points 100%, but this isn't a PC vs. Mac thread... If anyone is going to turn it into one it's you.

It had nothing to do with Power PC (well maybe it did, but that really wasn't the only issue). It has everything to do with so many companies using Microsoft's proprietary DirectX. Using DirectX makes it hard to port off Windows because it isn't cross platform. In order to port, they have to rewrite a lot of stuff for something cross-platform like OpenGL. Now, I think OpenGL is better anyway, and it's open source, and it's cross platform. What I don't understand is why companies don't just use OpenGL to begin with. I mean as much as I hate Apple, I hate DirectX more, and if more people used OpenGL more people would port to Linux, and I could finally start being able to transition into a full Linux environment without experiencing withdrawal.

Its been brushing close to one, but most people seem to be able to restrain themselves.

Let's just end this now, and pretend it never happened.

Edit: I'd rather not start a pointless debate.

PC's can have hex cores too, thats 12 virtual cores, but six actual cores. Im not sure if they do them for MAC's.

I'm deeply sorry for trying to start a PC vs MAC debate. After thinking it over it was very selfish of me to post. I have deleted my posts and hope that this thread can continue on peacefully. I ask that those who quoted me delete the quotes from their posts, so as to avoid any further conflict.
Again I apologize and hope that this thread continues on peacefully.

:hugs:

We love you still .

I hope its for Macs. I would go out and buy my self one if it was, being that my iMacs are a few months too old to play modern games...

Don't you have a windows pc?

Definitely, seems the way to go. Why restrict it?

I'd vote 'Yes' if the game was developed for both platforms simultaneously and wasn't a port. Valve are busy porting their games to Mac and the performance trails way behind on OS X. Back when Bungie was a Mac game developer they produced games for Mac and PC simultaneously and the performance was identical. Blizzard still produce hybrid games without issue.

As a Mac user I'm not all that bothered either way - I can play Beth's current games by booting into a Windows partition. But it would be slightly less hassle if they were OS X native.

:rolleyes:
I bet you though that I can take the http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_mac/family/imac?aid=AIC-WWW-NAUS-K2-BUYNOW-IMAC-PERFORMANCE&cp=BUYNOW-IMAC-PERFORMANCE you spent on your quad core mac and build one that is more powerful for the same amount of money.

So yes, PCs are hands down more powerful.

I washed my hands of this. Please stop arguing. If Betrayer of Humanitys Mac is making him happy, and your PC is making you happy why do you have to argue.

There are other powerful things that I can spend 2000 dollars on and then leave in your mailbox.

Just because your Mac has a quad core processor doesn't mean it can run games worth jack squat, as one must consider whether or not the graphics card is powerful enough. Most pre-built PCs have strong processors, but rather weak graphics cards (if you notice, most computers do not list the graphics card on the box or description, because its not exactly something to gloat about when most of them are pretty terrible). And indeed, 2000 dollars could build you an extremely powerful computer of your own (Of course, Apple lovers could do the same thing if Apple bothered to sell their OS separately. Blame Apple for that one, Mac fans.). Its pretty much a bad deal to spend 2000 dollars on ANY computer, Mac or not, especially if you're going to claim the power you're getting from it is even remotely comparible to a computer built yourself (Its not, and almost never will be. There are very few pre-built computers of ANY kind that compare to a decently built platform of your own).

That being said, the one concern I would have would be whether the construction set would work with the Mac. I'm not sure if its a portable platform, or whether some resources it uses are Windows only. Would mods that were made on the Windows construction set be able to be used on a Mac? What about the other way around?

Look, I won't lie, I have an irrational hatred of Apple, Macs, and OS X. However, this has nothing to do with Apple, Macs, or OS X, and everything to do with an ignorant person boasting about how many cores he has. So irrational hatred aside, your have wasted your money on four cores. Why? Because my Intel 3.0 GHz Core2 Duo processor can probably outperform your quad core in every single way imaginable except for compressing and extracting files. Why? Because NOBODY HAS OPTIMIZED SOFTWARE FOR MULTI CORE PROCESSORS YET. More cores != more performance. In this day and age, all people should be concerned about is Hertz until software developers finally develop software to efficiently use more than one core.

Anyways, besides that, I'd like to say something about software performance on the Mac. I will concede that applications built for OS X on a Mac DO run better than on a Windows PC even if the Windows PC has slightly better hardware. Here's why: OS X is written specifically for Apple hardware and Apple hardware is manufactured specifically for OS X. On the other hand, Windows has to be written to accommodate hundreds of thousands of different devices (that really is just a guess, just know that it's a big number). They can't maximize the efficiency of the hardware because not all hardware is designed the same way. They can't make everyone happy. The problem with OS X, though, is that almost every criticism of Windows Apple makes is an almost direct result of it being available on so many platforms. If Apple ever wanted to release OS X for everyone to install on whatever computer they wanted, OS X would have the same problems as Windows. Now, just so you know, Linux beats both of them hands down. It operates more efficiently than a Mac and is available on more platforms than Windows. This is because Linux is open source and can be ported by anyone who has the skill, desire, and patience to do so, and because Linux uses like none of your resources.

At the very least, mods should be supported.

Just so you guys know, Todd Howard's a Mac fan boy . So if your a Mac user, you've got someone up pretty high who wants to develop for the Mac. Just a bit of hope for you.
And let me remind you all that it's not OS X I have problems with (well I do, but really it's complete opinion. I don't have an issue with other people liking OS X, except when they won't admit it's shortcomings. But I feel that way about every OS). It's really Apple that I have problems with, and I have very well founded reasons why I hold that view.

Again you miss the point; what does the physical keyboard have anything to do with a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StickyKeys? Though in reading that article, I find that Mac OS has had that function since OS 6, predating Microsoft's addition of it to Windows 95.

If you go back and read the first post regarding Sticky Keys, you'll see that that's what he's referring to, and that's what I've been referring to throughout.

Let's get on topic - and that is not attacking people for having a Mac or boasting about their PC/Mac performance.

I began writing this before Rohugh up there posted. Let me make this clear, this post is not an attack on people using Macs, but rather an attempt at trying to set things straight about overstated claims about Windows shortcomings.

That beach ball thing happens all the time when I use OS X, even when I just have Finder open. I don't actually own a Mac, but I have used several others that belong to other people. Anyways, it can't be the equivalent to the hourglass. When something stops responding and you get the hourglass, you just can't touch that one window or application. You can still do everything else unrelated to the unresponsive application. It doesn't shut you off from doing literally anything. I mean in Windows, instead of waiting 20 minutes for an application to respond, I open up task manager or cmd and just kill the unresponsive process and then I relaunch it. I can't do that in OS X because Apple thought it would be a great idea to make it so you can't do anything at all. And that "send report" box doesn't mean Windows or OS X crashed, it means the application you were using crashed... That's not Windows fault that's the fault of whatever program you were using. Anyways something humorous I should point out, you pretty much proved Hircine's point about purposely making things incompatible with other operating systems by mentioning that Windows doesn't recognize drives formatted for Macs. Want to know why that is? It's because OS X uses a proprietary filesystem that's incompatible with other operating systems. Anyways, what Windows are you working with, there? You know, Microsoft's plug and play has improved a great deal since XP. Also, no, not all corporations are evil, and any prebuilt computer svcks. Build your own. It's cheaper. And why do you need Final Cut? There are plenty of alternatives. Why not use Linux?

I'm not against people having Macs. I'm not against people being happy with their system. I'm not against Macs.
I'm against people having this attitude on "oh my mac is just as good as a PC for gaming because it's really powerful". It's not. The cost:effect ratio compared to a PC is much worse.
I freely admit Mac looks great and does some awesome stuff with video editing and other creative stuff. Its OS is also a lot more newbie-friendly. It's not an anti-mac sentiment.

The same goes for Linux. It's open-source, greatly customizable, free, it does well for programmers and viruses are ironed out pretty quickly. It even has Wine.
It's just not as good as Windows in terms of software availability and localization tends to be lacking. It can also get quite complicated depending on the distro.
As with mac, if people are happy with it, fine. It's not an anti-linux sentiment.

The same goes for Windows. It's runs the vast majority of applications on whatever hardware you can throw at it. The OS itself looks good and has matured quite well, becoming quite stable in its latest iteration.
It's just not very good if you want the ultimate in safety, and its user friendliness isn't the best of the lineup either - though they're certainly trying. It can also get quite bloated.
So heck yeah, it's great for day-to-day use and it's fantastic as a gaming machine, but you don't want sensitive files on there. It's not an anti-windows sentiment.

And this is the point:
I hate it when people pretend something is the bees knees for a certain goal when it isn't. Different platforms have their pros and cons. Mac isn't the most powerful. Linux isn't the most user-friendly. Windows isn't the most customizable. Don't pretend it's otherwise - deal with it.


I can put things in your mailbox that my body excretes for free everyday.

I think you're just displaying your ignorance of the operating system. If you have an unresponsive application, for whatever reason, you can just hit cmd+alt+esc and a 'Force Quit' dialogue box appears. It even works if the Finder becomes unresponsive - you just relaunch it without needing to restart the computer. Spinning beach balls all the time sounds like an ancient computer without much memory/Mhz trying to run current software. I don't have that problem. OS 9 used to crash a lot, but I've literally only had a couple of kernel panics that forced a reboot since Apple introduced OS X.

In the end it comes down to personal preference and familiarity. I prefer Macs because I learned computing on Mac OS when I was studying Graphic Design, so it's a familiar environment. At the time most design software was Mac exclusive, and most design companies still use Macs because they were also raised on them! There really aren't any compatibility issues these days - I swap files between OS X and Windows all the time.

One thing I will say in Apple's favor is their build quality is top draw. I've never (knock on wood) had a component failure in one of their products. I have a Mac that I bought in 1995 and it's still working fine. It's slow as molasses, and will only run OS 9, but it still functioning 100% as new.

i don't have a problem with it.... however if you own a mac you waited a but load of money on an OS with bad hardware just saying they are way over priced and Apple are complete ass-hats about letting you do what you want.... monopoly

Errrrmm...most PC games are compatible on a Mac, haven't you guys ever heard of emulation? I see absolutely no reason that there would be many, or any conflicts for that matter. I'd say that with the right steps and tweaks, Oblivion and Morrowind could run flawlessly on a Mac, with mods makes no difference.

I think you're just displaying your poor reading comprehension. I clearly said I don't own a Mac. If you read the topic I quoted, you would realize that he was the person who said that beach balls locked you out. I was simply assuming he was a reliable source because he has expressed using Macs multiple times in the past. Also, I've never had a component failure in any computer ever, so not sure what you are trying to say there. Honestly, component failure that isn't a result of damage is honestly fairly rare.

And @Khal, emulation is NOT compatibility...