...and you enjoyed Morrowind? Where you would sit there and stab and stab until you lucked out and actually hit them? VATS was one of the things that really helped keep Fallout 3 a RPG in my opinion.

Now we re getting to a comon ground.
Because its easyer , yes, less effort.
Because it s better, depend on who is asked what is better, certainly not the players.
and yes sadly it Oblivion case and i don t delude myself, it will be the case for Skyrim.
If the Oblivion trend persist, i will only do whati just did with Oblivion, by it when on the garbage bin. (Side note i bought oblivion played it and again resold it, becoming a trend with beth titles. I buy a game for enjoyment only not to be on the wave, if it doesn t please i resell it while i can get the most of my money. Then if i find it worthy i buy it in the garbage bin: oblivion)

Thats highly insulting. I don't need you classifying myself and others who play on consoles as (how you put it) poor sheltered kids with attention spans of a rock. I play a console because I would personally rather use a console controller then a keyboard and mouse. Not because I don't have the attention span to learn how to use a keyboard and mouse(which I am more then capable of doing) and finally because I don't want to have to constantly upgrade my pc to keep up with games. Consoles make gaming a much more cost effective hobby then PCs especially for people who don't want to spend hundreds of dollars at a time to upgrade a PC. If I were to classify PC gamers based on some of the posts I have read in this forum I would state they were snobby self centered rich people who cant think of any other demographic other then them self even though the console market is the larger market and sales are mostly based on us. So thank the consoles for giving BGS the money to keep making these games. Now is that classification of PC gamers correct? Not for all of them and I dont go around constantly saying one group is inferior to another. This thread is about UIs so lets talk about those instead of this pointless platform war.

OT If BGS makes appropriate UIs for both consoles and PC I would be happy. Many members here get the game on both a console and a PC and I'm all for a gaming experience un hindered by consoles or by PC since honestly UIs mixed across tend to be horrid.

How did the drag & drop system work out for MW on consoles? I would utterly hate it if I sat with a console controller and had to do drag & drop operations, and throw it out the window. I think that's the reason they went with simpler click interface, that was equal on both and thus simpler for a developer having to deal with. No mystery, really. Having to deal with redundant systems is bad design.

As for size, it shouldn't have been that difficult allowing different sizes, when modders can do it. If planned on from the start. But depending on how things work internally, I can be a nightmare to set it up for multi purpose at a later stage.

For mouse input, two requests: Possibility to have keyboard shortcuts, and ESC = general purpose close/cancel command rather than having to drag mouse down, then click, with a mouse input lag that is affected by HW performance. Lots of frustrations.

Inventory lists became long and tedious, despite having a convenient mouse scroll handler. In addition, there could be collapsible lists. Like, I really don't feel like watching my keys or books today, so I'm just gonna collapse it (to i.e. + Books).

I don't care if GUI is originally made for console, but don't neglect the PC players. Even today (with everything maxed), OB is the only game I've played where I'm required to set mouse on highest DPI to get the interface to react, because it will feel very sluggish/laggy on medium.

Don't get me wrong, keyboard control doesn't solve all problems. OB is mostly mouse, which becomes a pain due sluggishness (as was MW on bad hardware btw). But look at keyboard (only) controlled popular race games. There are so many submenus to go through and so many keypresses required they managed to drive me out of their games. They are much worse than OB, for me anyways.

It's going to be just like Oblivion, a PC port from the XBox. There will be no specific GUI for the PC there will be no special graphics for the PC. It will again be up to the modders to fix the GUI for the PC and make it usable.

Face the facts, console is the main platform for Bethesda that is why Game Informer, a console publication, got the exclusive and not a PC gaming magazine like PC Gamer. I don't like it any more than others but it's a fact that we all need to live with. PC users get screwed each and every time a game comes out. It's the gaming world we live in. We need to adapt and move forward.

Yes i liked morrowind because i came from D&D up to Rolemaster, so i understand missing even if my weapon seem to touch the ennemy.

But i want a little of plausability. Nobody get 2 shots in the head (blood spread)and keep up, even if the shots are only superficial.
By the same pausability NOBODY miss 3 shots in a corridor at point blank and on an armorless target.... The problem with vats is the fact it isn t able to coopt with situation. Outside, i can kill a flying giant wasp in flight but i cant shot someone in a corridor ? Yeah right. VATS it just a random dice thrower.

This would work in sintuation like medieval RPG, but in shooting it doesn t, or if it would, it should consider a pletora of factors like:
- target speed,
- target space to move out of the way
- Target moving direction and speed VS shooter
- local damage and result on victim capacities,
- etc.

Thats why i fear for Bullet time in Skyrim. If its not for mere cutscene purpose, which would be lame.
No matter how fast you goes, a hit on an armor that resist is a hit that deal few to no damage. And what kids complained about hit onr miss was : i can see the blade hit and nothing happens.
Then came oblivion, and no matter how much you blade connected it dealt damage.. patethic that it drain you of stamina SURE but damge ? Its like shooting pelets at the body of someone wearing a grade 4 ceramic/kevlar/steel battle armor that resist to consecutive .30 shots.
As a SPEC OP friend mine said, you ll only achivement would be having the pellets bouncing back at your face.

Obviously there s a beetween both ends that is dictated by skill and tech. Now we have the tech, but the skill (RPG)have been utterly rapped in oblivion to a point they were useles as so many time exposed.

I hope (less) that developpers where wise enought in SKYRIM to get there but i doubt. There s some indication in further "dumb down" VS "do the thing as it should be" that tell me dumb down wins and RLZ.

Way to miss the point.

Succellus mainly speaks for me...but in those times I just aim Skyrim to have lots of RPG things to do (cooking, smithing, farming, etc) apart from combat, to be inmersive, and little else.

Well, we could always use mods for all the rest...not even Morrowind was perfect in that matter. I discovered a whole world of roleplay by just installing Necessities of Morrowind 3.0

Ok just english ain t my native language. And your probably a point out of the curve.

This thread is honestly pointless, I know plenty of PC gamers and console gamers and they all basically want the same things. Thing is, those things are not what a lot of devs are giving us, because they misunderstand what people want.

Dont forget PC in eastern Europe is probably the biggest gaming platform. Its pretty big in all of the gaming areas of Europe. US Being second biggest. Crysis sold 3 million copies...for an exclusive game thats not Call of Duty Or Halo thats pretty good. Bethesda certainly has reason to support the PC and spend some extra time on it. Not to mention they have a MASSIVE amount of support from their mod team.
I really just want modern PC graphics that take advantage of every PC aspect from mid range to making high end cards sweat at max settings. I want mods, I want a PC centric UI. Make a operate UI for consoles if you have to its fine. Bioshock did this and it was great.

It may be higly insulting, but, you know, there s gamepad for PC among a pletora of other controls like HOTAS that console can t even put up with. And BTW thats why you set for lesser game. I only spend hundreds of USD once upon 3 to 4 years, my machine is good but far from top.

I don t care much about the UI, what pisses me off, really, is the fact that i can t program my keyboard and mouse as i wish because the company only made the programation for lousy gamepad.
in that department there s no conciliation unfortunatly. Or they program for PC and then restrict for console or there will be war until all consoles get some keyboard.

Yes i have to agree that is a point that give me hope. I just hope it will be better implemented than AOC for whatever that matters.

Yeah, this conversation isn't going to accomplish anything. Farewell, thread, you never really stood a chance.

I wish what you sayd would be true. But Oblivion is exactly the result of hearing the new console public from morrowind.
So i have to differ. Althought many console fan, and almost all PC want what i call more, it seem many more console player wan t what i call less.

I could answer "way to not be willing to see the point", but i won t say it.

Is it ? someone just said the opposite now i m lost.

I think one of the things Beth devs count on is simply that people will tend to like whatever it is that they're used to. There are tons of examples of workplace employees refusing to switch over to a new program that is vastly superior and offers far more options than the one they've been using -- simply because the new one's going to require them to learn how to use it all over again. And the IT people will scratch their heads and be completely unable to understand why on earth somebody would keep using the old one when it's so obvious that the new one is better.

I started playing Oblivion on the console, and switched to PC after I discovered the modding community -- but I still use the console controller. The biggest reason is because my hands are badly clawed from arthritis and it's physically difficult to use the keyboard-and-mouse setup, but I won't deny that part of it is because I just plain like the controller better. It's what I'm used to. And I've gotten all kinds of flak from keyboarders who are more insistent than Jehovah's Witnesses -- so absolutely convinced that their way is better and if I'd just TRY it for a few hours I'd promptly throw my DualShock in the trash immediately, that sometimes I think if they could do it they'd actually reach through their monitors and force me to use the keyboard and mouse.

I also play Dragon Age on the console, and while I did have a copy of the PC version briefly, I ended up reselling it on eBay because I liked the PlayStation version better. I'm going to say that again for emphasis. I have played both console and PC versions of Dragon Age and I PREFER THE CONSOLE. To whomever stated that it's "laughable" to watch somebody "trying" to play DA on a console, you're welcome to come visit me and observe the enjoyment I get from that very activity. I'll probably revisit DA on the PC in another year when the modding community has had time to mature; at the time I toyed with the PC version there were literally no mods available that made me even briefly consider switching to PC permanently. But if I ever do, you can bet I'll be playing it with my DualShock and Xpadder.

I don't know if my opinion is strangely unusual, or if I'm one of the sheeple majority who are ruining the gaming industry. It doesn't bother me either way. I love Dragon Age, I love Morrowind, I love Oblivion. I play each game in the manner that is easiest and most enjoyable for me personally -- whether it's playing directly on the console, playing the PC with a console controller, or using mods to tweak the interface UI to my liking. Or sometimes all three until I decide which is best. I'll buy Skyrim when it comes out and take it just as it is, at face value, without blaming gamesas for any choices they may have made that happened to interfere with my personal style of playing. I don't expect the company to cater to me exclusively, or even to cater to a group of people like me. It is what it is, and I'll figure out which system and which control method suits me best, and not worry so much about whether it could have been even better if only the UI had been designed for ABC instead of XYZ.

Yes. PC is still a very valid profitable platform for traditional games in many parts of the world including the US. I'm not saying its more than consoles cause its not. Consoles will always generate more revenue. But PC is strong enough to warrant specialized attention. I ask people to look at games like Two Worlds 2, Risen,Gothic 4 as examples of games that work well as PC games because they took that extra effort on PC but that also have strong console versions.

Agree,on both counts of what you said, if they make the UIs for both than BOTH will be happy and if they are atleast close to the same stuff


"point out of the curve" ????What? I don't understand what you just said

I am telling you,you need to calm down about this, all you are doing is making a flame war happen



Why in the world would we need to or have to go buy a gamepad? Just so the games will stay on PC which won't happen?!
I think not, like another user said consoles are just more budget friendly instead of reprogramming and reinstalling thing after thing that spends thousands if not a few hundred when you could just buy a system for a few hundred or even just a hundred bucks to play the games you love?

sames goes for many many other games,....but the company still takes the time to make a proper PC UI.

Bioware and Dice come to mind.

consoles ofc, thats where the moneys at :/
(even though the majority of fans on forums play it for pc)

I predicted this thread would go in this direction. It really should be closed.

The only thing this petty little "platform war" does is divide the community. We are human beings, god dammit. We should love and respect each other, and not make rude generalizations. Console gamers are "dumb", PC gamers are "[censored] elitists". These are petty arguments, and they really have no place in this forum. We should unite in our love for The Elder Scrolls, not bicker like children.

humans have been fighting for as long as man has been here on earth, its natural and you still think the negative thoughts even if you dont choose to say (type?) them.
plus youll only end up getting a tumour

Might as well just stop responding to him. Ill stick to consoles as my main source because its just more cost effective to buy a console ever 5-10 years then buy a pc and find out they already have something better out. With that said though I'm all for being fair to everyone and I do not condone bashing of any platform watsoever. Everyone has their own preference and some people need to learn to respect that.