Well you gotta give him some credit, there was a time in TES history where there were just outright weird things. I can honestly say that things like the Ascended Sleeper and the Ash Ghoul in Morrowind (or netches, for that matter) were things that resembled virtually nothing in the sea of fantasy tropes I had encountered at that point.

But then again, the point of Morrowind was precisely to be weird, to be out of place in virtually all aspects. And that just isn't the role of all provinces. I expect that we'll see some elements of that in Skyrim (the plot so far seems extremely promising in this regard), but it's not the point of Skyrim to be foreign and alien in all aspects.


More like, forum-user who has been here longer than a troll would care to is expressing his actual opinion, regardless of how much I or you disagree with it.

All I asked for was Fishing, or Farming. And I got one of those.

I don't think any criticism (even dubious, premature criticism) of Skyrim should automatically be met with derision; I've seen that kind of culture on other forums and it's not healthy for discussion of a game. That said, I appear to disagree with you, OP, on every level.



There's the first problem - you guys didn't make a game. You've got nothing but suggestions. Did you design and test gameplay systems? Did you develop suitable art assets, implement technology, confirm the financial validity of the project? Did you receive feedback from gamers on their experience of your game? If you've actually created a tangible computer game, I'd love to play - I'll certainly have criticisms of my own for your consideration. But I assume you haven't, and so what you see as "creating a great game" is in fact just brainstorming. It's much easier to have an idea than it is to create, balance, and sell it.


"Failure" as art is highly subjective - failure as a product is much less so, and Oblivion was vastly more successful than Morrowind in at least that way. Finally, by "last two failures" I assume you're referring to Oblivion and Skyrim; the latter is still in development, and you haven't played it. If what little we know is already so far removed from what you consider to be a successful Elder Scrolls game, I wonder why you consider Morrowind to be a success (if indeed you do).


If you're content with inferior visuals and demand so huge an amount of content, I'd suggest that no game made today or in the near future will satisfy you in any way. The good news is that all the tools you need to create your own sprawling, Morrowind-inspired, heavy on content and light on visuals RPG are out there already, in various forms. If you've sufficient dedication you could certainly create your own game to your own standards.

All that stuff I listed is from Morrowind's beastiary I was trying to make an ironic point. Anyways I'm sure Skyrim will be quite unique in it's own way, Bethesda always puts their own spin on things.

On one thing I agree, becouse, even if Oblivion looked pretty for it's time, there wasn't that much of gameplay available outside of the main Quest.

I'd rather have twice the content of Oblivion in exchange for only slightly improved Morrowind graphics and content, but maybe that's just me?

Wait how did a discussion forum make a game exactly?

I mean we give some feedback (mostly through *agressive* criticizing) that a small number of devs may occasionally glance at to see the general opinions and then they make snarky comments on the Dev-Question threads.(I'm looking at you Panda)

I hope you are right, and I hope they do it well, I am still a bit shocked and disappointed that they chose to go in this direction though, from Morrowind which was a great game set in an alien fantasy world to Oblivion which incorporated such creatures as wolves, deer, bears, horses and the usual D&D creatures (trolls, orcs and such) to Skyrim which at first glance looks like a hack and slash dragon fighting game. But, if they do it right then it is possible that all hope is not yet lost.

I'm still looking forward to having a working calendar and magic based around the dates (certain times of the year having different magical effects) based on the different Aedra and Daedra that control the workings of the world. Enchanting and the magic system will hopefully go back to Morroind style. Also I am hoping that the world map is much bigger than Oblivion or Fallout 3/NV as the fallout games lasted me not more than a week before everything was done and Oblivion was boring after a few weeks of dungeon crawling in the same 3 or 4 dungeons repeated a couple hundred times.

I will however stick to my original statement, I will not pay for this game (at least until I have read some reviews on the gameplay itself).

What do those two have in terms of architecture that reminds you more of Morrowind than Dwemer ruins ? And in what way was Oblivion MORE like D&D than Morrowind ? Was it the part where they took out the chance to miss with melee attacks ? Or when they decided that you′d not have to rest often to be worth anything like many casters in D&D such as Wizards and Druids ? And if you are complaining because Oblivion had a lot of classical monsters compared to Morrowind, well then sure, but Cyrodiil still had its charm and I′m sure Skyrim will feel plenty unique, even if it does not meet the creature diversity of Morrowind when it comes to strange beasts.

I haven′t read your suggestions but what makes you certain you had good suggestions, or realistic suggestions ? A lot of people tend to suggest for the game to be magical and perfect but there are limitations. However as I′ve said I haven′t read your suggestions so I′m not going to bash on them, but I may get back to them after school when I have time, if the discussion is still going. Pretty sure I remember you suggesting at one point to have whole 3 continent and just to reduce the amount of locations instead, have everything spread out...

Bethesda is listening I say, they are bringing in crafting, the AI will be better (well that has been the case with each new TES game if I understand it so perhaps that is just more of a natural progression), there will supposedly not be level scaling in the way we had it in Oblivion, the world will be a open space like morrowind so levitation will most likely be back. They are giving players a better chance to define their characters strengths and weaknesses through perks, something a lot of people wanted. A lot of people also did want TESV to be in Skyrim so it′s a fine choice.



There is a word for when people give up on a thing before they have even tried it, even more so when they don′t even know everything about it, pessimism. And I think you may have a little too much of it.

Indeed. Bethesda has mainly been influenced by the critizing when it comes to user feedback. The level scaling in Oblivion was an answer because a LOT of people complained about how easy Morrowind was when you reached a higher level. And then the level scaling in Oblivion was complained about and they adjusted that in Fallout 3.

People also complained about Oblivion lacking deep lore and so on, and now they are expanding upon that with a new language and other stuff.

The trailer can be (at most) a proof of graphics, animations and combat. It doesn't touch the quests, the dialogue system, the character customization, the factions, the levelling, the loot. How can you evaluate the whole experience based on two minutes of random action scenes?

Exactly. You cannot evaluate a game with presumably a hundred hours of content based on 2 1/2 minutes of footage.

And that's your opinion...

Graphics are what define how great an rpg is for me. Without great graphics you can't have the same feeling of immersion. Also with their new combat system the gameplay could become pretty epic, nobody knows that yet.

They didn't listen to your ideas probably because they weren't really good. That, and they would rather listen to their own people with years of experience rather than some random people on the internet.

Also a game doesn't have to be 100% totally original to be good, it's mostly the depth that counts. One of the most annoying thing I tend to hear about Oblivion is how "generic" it is. Oblivion was bland, yes, but not because it was set in a more standard fantasy setting. They could've made Oblivion more interesting without making Cyrodill into a big Jungle infested with flying lions.

People like this kind of threads, it's good for adrenaline, keep em coming! Anyways, calling a game a 8 months before release just because
-it has dragons
-you didn't like the color scheme
-the graphics are too good
-your revolutionary ideas were not praised by the entire galaxy
is cheap trolling in my book

Ok....i'll admit,i shouldn't have said this.
Anyway..just check all the info we have so far,there is quite a bit,if you look hard enough.
Bethesda do listen to people,but still take the game where they think it needs to go. After all it's their baby,i trust what they are doing. If people didn't know what bethesda was doing they wouldn't have bought morrowind and oblivion,and would not show interest in skyrim. The devs sometimes explain why certain things can't be added to games etc. But that does not mean that they don't listen or pay attention to their fans.
Please look at the info we have,and remember there is more info to come....skyrim will be great :thumbsup:

Wait. So this guy is upset because in Skyrim the rocks are grey and the snow is white? Not sure I understand what specifically about the trailer has him so disappointed, other than the fact it appears to be running on a 360 or similar hardware.

The whole point with TES has always been, live another life in another world. The advancements in graphics makes the world more believable and adds to the motto of another life in another world. TES has always had very detailed game worlds for their time and Skyrim will be no different. If you don't like good graphics, I guess you should play the game with ultra epic low quality to get the feeling you are looking for, but I just don't understand how that could possibly be a better thing than good graphics. Mistake? Mistake they made in Oblivion? Black, white and gray? Just because they probably didn't listen to a random guy saying stuff that he wants into Skyrim that almost no-one else liked it means that Skyrim is not-colorful? Like you could have added the great colofulness to it by dumping down the graphics, not adding the dragons that every single tes has foretold and the dragon combat which will be one of the greatest in the world. Your argumentation fails at the point where you point out stereotypical fantasy things and this century stuff, while forgetting that most of them were in the past game you liked, Morrowind. Morrowind had magic, that is like so everyday fantasy stuff that it's almost horribly to see only black, white and gray shades of fire, frost and shock. A dragon was in Oblivion, did someone complain? Dragon armor was in Morrowind? Did someone complain then about the copy pasted adding of dragons into the picture? No-one did. Seriously, you've got to come up with better arguments of your point, because you can't sail with a broken sail full of holes.

If i had a septim for every "Waah, TES is generic"-whine...

It's your loss, mister.

My first reaction to OP is rage.

But then I see that he has value in some of his claims.

Now I realize that OP has disappointed me. Channeling personal frustration into a company that owes him nothing instead of expressing & manifesting his concepts in a positive way. I bet you could make a great game, get skilled with the Creation Kit PLEASE. The more detail the better, with regards to RPGs. But please don't come preemptively complaining to the Skyrim forums when your hard work as fan has not yet paid off. Bethesda cannot and will not bend over backwards to the desires of a GLOBAL fan base. They aim to please on a massive scale.

Everything in due time, my son.

Oh, just wanted to add that Morrowind was pretty much all brown and grey, with a tinge of green here and there. Much more monochromatic than Skyrim is looking.

They could have gone for MUCH better graphics. The graphics are good and better than Oblivion (which was 06 remember), but they aren't as incredible and revolutionary as Oblivion's arguably were at the time. Stop moaning, the game sounds like it's gonna be great.

And not everyone wants a game "set in several provinces" with Morrowind-esque graphics.

The fact is, you cannot please everyone one making games,there is no way in hell you can please everyone,your talking about millions of people....it's impossible.
Remember ,bethesda spend years making their games,they think big and take their time.

I remember it took years for them to make the first fable on the original xbox ( lionhead studios ),and it was a great game,still the best one to most people.
Now it looks like they are going to pump these out every year,just like call or duty,fifa etc. Now think about this for a minute...Bethesda has spent two years working on dragons....that tells you how commited they are to their games and how much it means to them. Todd as stated many times that bethesda think big. Sometimes thant works,sometimes it won't.
They put alot of effort into the elder scrolls series,and spend many years doing so. Bethesda/todd also respect what other developers do too,thats a good thing. If bethesda really wanted to,they could churn out an elder scrolss game every year,BUT don't. They are also not afraid to change things,it's how they'll progress...how will they know what works and doesn't without testing the water?. We should appreciate what bethesda try and do with their games and how long they spend on them. To many people are unfair to bethesda in my view,they pick up a ball and run in one direction with it. I say this alot "they don't look at the bigger picture". Some people ( quite frankly ) don't deserve to play such games,they don't realize how much is involved.

So,on this note: Thankyou bethesda for making ( what i think ) is the best game series ever,and i look forward to skyrim. Great work :thumbsup:

How do you know that Skyrim's gameplay will be bad, and that all focus will be on graphics?
Since when was dragons something new to The Elder Scrolls, and since when does all RPG's feature dragons?
"Grey/black&white", what? And how is this something bad? What do you want, neon-lights?

Am I feeding a troll or just replying to someone who doesn't seem to know what he's talking about? :shrug:

Best post in this thread.