If I have all 3 levels of Mage Armor perks in Alteration and use Ebonyflesh, I get 300 armor. Is it the same as getting 300 armor from using regular armor? Or is it worse because you are not getting the hidden armor of +100?

I think the hidden armor bonus only applies to equipped pieces, so no armor equipped means no bonus.

That is correct, however if you have a displayed rating of 300 while wearing 4 non-shield pieces, your actual rating is 400. Thus, a fully-perked Ebonyflesh is 100 points less than that set of armor.

Which makes it of dubious utility, given its cost, duration, and the requirement of not wearing physical armor at all while using it if you want the perks to function. If not for the way the mitigation equation works it would actually be a pretty good spell, but instead a 300 rating is not all that good, especially when facing high(er)-tier opponents. Then again, they seem to have assumed that mages would be using the Dragonhide spell for such encounters; it gives capped physical mitigation for 30 seconds, which is usually long enough to dispose of them.

Thanks for the information. This just confirms my suspicion how absolutely terrible Mage armor is. Mages should focus on not getting hit or wear proper armor if they plan on getting hit.

I know some folks use it extensively and get good mileage out of it, however they're generally using it as an insurance policy of sorts rather than trying to tank with it. Basically, you 'wear' it so that if you do pull aggro you won't die in two hits or less, which gives you time to either incapacitate or distract the attacker.

It's probably not worth the bother on higher difficulties, though, since you're taking (a lot) more damage per hit and would be better served with smithed-up actual armor.

My characters started becoming Alterationists back in December because of the "free" magic resistance offered by the Alteration tree. It is used as an insurance policy, and a way of training a Skill that gives a character access to Paralysis and Dragonhide. Using it as a boost to Armor levels Alteration steadily enough that the characters do not fall significantly behind the scaling opponents in the game for combat skills. Once my glass cannons can actually Dual Cast Dragonhide, they can go toe to toe with anything in the game (if they can kill thier opponent before the spell collapses).

The Mage Armor Perks are a waste unless you are RP'ing a Mage who does not wear Armor at all, every other perk has uses - The Atronach Perk is still causing issues for Summons, but for a Solo player it becomes a nice boost to Mana regeration in combat.

A Vampire Necromage can get 125 Armor out of Ebonyflesh or 375 with the mage armor perks and a total of 425 with the Lord Stone, still not all that awesome.

Throw in a potion of alteration and you can get an extra minute or two out of the casting.

Like others have said, mage armor is alright if you want to sneak around the whole time and only use it as a backup if someone sees you, but it's really not good for anything else. It barely lasts long enough to be useful for that, let alone anything else.. if you were to get into an intense, long battle, you'd have to recast it at least once or twice.

If you're looking to use it as actual armor, I wouldn't waste the time/perks leveling alteration. Light armor is much, much more effective, especially after you get the perk that makes it weightless.

The flesh spells really needed to have lung durations. 10minutes-12minutes would be gOod, especially for something as trivial as
Oakflesh. Recasting every minute is garbage and an annoyance, and stability and necromage still dont cut the cake because the base duration is so low.

One of my first mods was longer lasting mage armor. It is alot more convienient to just cast it when you enter a dungeon.

Im deciding to take mage armor perks on my current character because I'm playing a pure mage and wont be putting any points into armour or smithing.

I agree they should last longer though, I'll be looking up the mod that increases their duration.

Well 375+62=437 as the 50 is increased also. Then you can use a greater ward for +100 (boosted) resulting in 537, not far of the cap of 667. You can use two greater wards for 637 armor rating, but then you can't attack.

The armor rating really isn't terrible.. it's just not worth the annoyance of having to recast it so often. If you want to play with it, you pretty much have to download the mod that improves alteration so that the novice, apprentice, etc perks increase the duration of the spell along with decreasing magic costs.

Dual cast with the perk, 90x2.2=198 seconds, which is a long time.. Or as a necrovamp 90x2.2x1.5=297 seconds.

It allows you to have decent armor ratings and still use decent robes with enchantments that can't be matched.

It is a sad state of affairs that you have to be a vamp with necromage to get any decent use out of mage armor. For the three perks, you should get double, triple and quadruple the flesh spells. That would have made more sense and would have made the mage armor spells somewhat useful.

You don't, it just boosts it. Mages don't use alteration to survive multiple hits, they use it to survive some hits. 300 armor rating is good enough, it would be nice if the mage armor perk increased by x2/x3/x4 then you'd get 400 armor rating, but it's okay the way it is.

I don't think anyone's really debating that the amount of armor is proper for an armor spell.. it just lasts way too little time.

I am glad someone is enjoying it. To me it seems like the paltry amount of protection mage armor provides is either a pure roleplaying thing or a wast of three perks, especially since there is no penalty for a mage wearing armor and the mage armor perks are rendered oblolete by the dragonhide spell.

Dragon hide lasts for half the time, for about double the strength. It needs to be dual cast, but it's a master spell so it costs a [censored] load and takes ages to cast.

Ebony flesh 300 armor for 200 seconds is fine, people are just obsessed with everything being as broken as smithing.

That is not why I don't like mage armor. Your 300 AR from ebony flesh is equivalent to an actual armor AR of 200 because you don't get the hidden 100 with mage armor. So with Ebonyflesh and three mage armor perks you can withstand about 1.5 times as much damage as you would with an AR of 0. Compare that to a warrior decked in actual armor with an AR of 567 (which you can do without smithing if you are wearing unsmithed Daedric Armor and some heavy armor perks). They are going to be able to withstand five times as much damage as they would with AR 0. Here is the link to the UESP armor/physical durability ratio. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/File:Skyrim_armor_and_durability.png

Can you get by being only 1.5 times as durable? Sure, but you can also get by with AR of zero as a mage. In Oblivion, a high level mage could cast a shield spell that was equivalent to Daedric Armor I was disappointed they nerfed mage armor so badly and would have thought that a powerful mage would have been able to do better.

I'd rather just go with zero AR and put three perks into something else, which is what my mage does. He trained pickpocket with the begger in Windhelm so now he can carry an extra 100 pounds. For my money, that is a better use of perks. But each to his own.

I understand the system fine, 300 armor rating gives you 36% physical resistance, which I think is fine for surviving even on master. Maybe it's the way play but I get on fine without the armor cap.

I was hoping for more spells too tbh, I'm hoping more will be released in dlc.

But tbh I would argue that is a waste due to how easy money is to get, coupled with the huge carry capacity you get anyway, I'd much rather have the 300 armor rating (or 432 for me as a necro vamp).

I definitely think they should have a spell effectiveness drop if you wear armor, bit annoyed they dropped it. Also the fact you can have weightless heavy armor is ridiculous.

My mage does not wear armor and he gets on fine without mage armor. 36% protection is better than nothing but it not that much protection so I make up for it with a few extra healing spells every once in a while. There are probably a few enemies that could one hit me but leave you standing, but that just makes the game more challenging.

Agreed.

Yeah, I have personal a rule that I never fast travel, so for me it is worth it to have a little extra carrying capacity, so I can carry a few staves and potions without worrying about the weight. I am not putting points into stamina, so the only way for me to increase carry capacity is with the extra pockets perk or the steed stone.

It also seems like your encumbrance affects movement speed, so having an extra 100 carry capacity may make me lighter on my feet. I have not tested that though, so I may be wrong about that, but that is how it worked in Oblivion and Morrowind.

My Altmer has no intention of becomming a vampire, but the difference between 300 and 432 might be enough to entice me to try those perks. It is more the way they make me feel than anything else. Three perks for +200 AR just sounds too expensive. Three perks for +300 sounds like more of a fair deal. Personal preference. I was excited about the mage armor perks until I saw how expensive they were and that left me with a bad taste in my mouth for them. You can get along just fine as a robed mage without them. So they are not for me, but I am glad that someone is enjoying them. I like the concept.

Agreed on both counts. Heavy armor should be half weight with perk, not zero weight.