Hi

I am a Mage and just using robes of conjuration at the moment. So I am armour 0 on the torso although I have armoured gauntlets and boots etc. I am trying to keep my weight down so I can carry things i find as I’m a bit wimpy in the stamina field. I did have the Iron Armor of Destruction which was good, but added 28 weight.

So I am looking for tips how to keep my torso more protected without increasing weight? I have Oakskin, but that spell only lasts 60 seconds and I don’t want to have to keep casting that every minute.

Any hints??

Wear whatever armor you want and take the perks that make it weightless.

You can wear armor if you want, but it takes skill of 50 in light, 70 in heavy to get the weightless perk. You only need the "skin" spells when you are in combat so while traveling you don't really need it unless you encounter something. Have it hotkey'd to make it easier though it is kind of a hassle since it takes a second or two to cast when that time could have been better spent throwing fireballs at the sabre cat running at you.

Do the skin spells stack? Like casting Oakskin and Stoneskin? Or does only the highest one take effect? I never really looked myself.

Depends on how set you are on playing a pure mage! If you invest in Alter. you can get an armor spell around 300 i believe! If you don't mind wearing armor stick to light, because, well its lighter! I'm currently playing a bosmer mage who strictly depends on rest and alter for protection and as such has a zero armor rating without spells! I play on expert and, since I can get one-shot killed by the higher level opponents it adds strategy to the game play since she is very delicate!

I do not believe they stack and dual casting does not affect the rating either! The stability perk increases the duration of the spell though and I believe dual casting does as well! Also you can invest in mage armor perks which increase the armor rating of you spell but once you get the highest level armor spell it is not affected by these multipliers so choose your route wisely!

steed Stone. makes armor weightless. wear it till you get the level to perk weightlessness.

Mage Armor is currently garbage because:

• The multiplier is too low
  
• Flesh spells don't last long enough
  
• Dragonhide makes it obsolete.

If you have the PC version, I'll be http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1299968-planned-improved-perk-trees/ among several others, when the Creation Kit is available in January. For now, just wear armor. Mage Armor currently svcks.

mage armor is bad because it has multiple costs (time to cast, mana spent, tedium of recasting, chance to get caught with no protection if you dont do the previous).
Wearing light or heavy armor, even with 0 perks invested, do not have any cost, and provide useful levels of armor.

Either those costs need to be largly mitigated by perks in the tree, or the armor itself needs to have more use.
ie, mage armor perks giving the spell a potentially infinite duration (investing mana or something), or at least a significant duration (10 mins or more) to last a dungeon, rather than a fight.
Or these perks need to make magical armor better than non magical armor (higher max armor cap, add elemental resists or something like this).

Otherwise, there is very little point in using magical armor when non-magical armor is always more efficient.

A mage needs to feel that fully perking out alteration will give similar utility to fully perking out light or heavy armor.
For example, heavy armors weaknesses (weight, movement speed) are completely negated by perks. In addition to a boost to effectiveness and potentially useful random benefits (cushioned, fists of steel, reflect damage), and finally the basic protection is improved (juggernaut, well fitted, full set).

At the moment, alteration, fully perked, partially mitigates the weaknesses (stability, tiered cost reduction perks), and improves the basic protection (mage armor), but not enough when compared to being able to smith armor (another tree admittedly, but one for which no anolog exists for the mage), which is to say far far less than you get for investing in an armor skill.

just changing around perks a bit wont change this fact. Alteration tree needs to make defensive spells free, very long duration (if not infinite), and able to reach armor cap, or there is little point to nvesting in the tree.

I agree with all of that. I've looked over my planned changes for Alteration and I'm not sure they're enough. How about this:

• Reorder the tree to emphasize Alteration's role as a defensive skill
  
• Make the mastery perks add to duration as well as reduce cost.
  
• Stability's effect is doubled. Instead of x1.5 duration it is now x2 duration
  
• Mage Armor is improved. Each rank now improves both duration and magnitude of flesh spells, plus gives a passive +50 armor (per rank) when not wearing any light or heavy armor.
  
• Dragonhide is now one of the flesh spells. It adds 150 armor for 60 seconds and works with Mage Armor.
  
• Dual-casting no longer reduces efficiency. It now multiplies duration by 2.5 for x2.5 cost.

Duration is no longer a problem with all of those bonuses multiplying each other. You can get x1.5 from mastery perks, x2 from Stability, and x3 from Mage Armor. That results in flesh spells with a base duration of 540 seconds. Dual-casting's multiplier works oddly with entry point multipliers. It doesn't multiply their whole benefit, but I'd expect somewhere around 1000 seconds when dual-cast. With three ranks of Mage Armor, you can have a passive +150 armor (18% damage mitigation), which helps a lot in the event you are caught unprepared. Dragonhide will no longer make Mage Armor obsolete. The added duration helps negate its long casting animation (just cast it way beforehand) and it's no longer at full power without Mage Armor. With all three ranks, it applies 450 armor. Added with your passive 150, you have 600 armor, which is 72% damage mitigation. That's damn close to the 80% Dragonhide normally provides, but lasts way longer and doesn't make Mage Armor obsolete.

Does this sound like it would make Alteration worth using, or are other changes more appropriate? I feel that these changes would make alteration finally act as a fair alternative to light or heavy armor for mages.

that sounds workable, with the magic resist perks in the tree to give some utility, and there are other alteration spells (well, paralyze, and some other crap no-one casts).

I would prefer to hit the cap with dragonhide, but the 10m+ duration really helps alleviate the biggest turn off to magical defense spells. Either by bumping the passive to 75/rank or dragonhide to 175 base should get to 675, which is more or less the cap. I mean the mage is already waiting on a much higher skillpoint to get armor capped, while the heavy armor shield fighter got it by level 20, and 60ish skill in armor and smithing, the master of alteration should be able to get to cap at 100 skill.

Casting the spell every time you start a dungeon, and perhaps once in a while mid-dungeon if its long or you are being cautious is fine. The 150 when jumped by a theif on the road is a nice idea too, might not instantly die, but you will still want to get that spell up.

With Stability also affecting paralysis spells, I think perhaps doubling its effect may be too much. Mage Armor multiplying duration as well as magnitude should already be enough for the flesh spells, so I think now I just won't touch Stability. I'm really liking the plan to give Mage Armor a passive effect as well. With these changes, alteration will still not be quite as strong defensively as light or heavy armor, but it will have a slightly lower perk investment in exchange for spending magicka instead.

At the start of the game, you could expect that a mage using alteration could have Mage Armor rank 1 and the Oakflesh spell. This would give him 50 basic armor and the ability to throw on a temporary 80 when needed for 130 total. In contract, light and heavy armor users get a basic 100 points just for wearing a full set of armor. Whatever the armor adds is on top of that and is increased by skill, perks, and smithing. Armor still easily beats alteration at lower and mid levels even with my changes, but alteration is no longer such a limp noodle and catches up most of the way near the end. During those earlier levels, you'd still be getting use from other alteration spells, which means it's also more versatile a skill than the armors.