Mages are fine. Mages in game are typically more difficult to play than melee type characters

:D

it does work to a fault. my issue is i want variety like a warrior class has when picking weapons of different base damages that you can change through smithing for example or enchantments. the damage a mage does is static and will be the same at level 1 and at level 50 and you can only use a specific spell to exploit weaknesses and that's it.

Then complain that smithing/alchemy/enchanting have effects past 100 in the skill. (and actually I think alchemy has damage boosters for destruction).
For a mage you have fire, frost and shock to deal damage. A lot of foes will be vunerable to one of them which is combat prowless. You can also paralyze enemies or make them fight for you well atttack everyone. But if you stand back its like there fighting for you.

An exquisite mage once said something like steel may win battles but mind wins the war.

The catch is that you are in a rough place and have to use everything to your advantage. I am playing a batlemage. But first, I had to learn battle. Then I got into the arcane arts. And haven't used any fancy stuff like enchanting or powerful smithing.

Why specialize in heavy armor if the enemy does not reach you? Time your steps and you may save a few perks for other things. Use your mind or don't use it at all. This is not as "simplistic" as it sounds at first sight. The curious thing is that Skyrim "seems" like this over-simplified, badly designed, unbalanced "thing" that people talk about. It isn't. You are the ones with a certain expectation and haven't adapted yet. I must be missing something important because I can't have the frustration many people say they have.

It just matters what your preference is

pure destruction mages are the best
Summoning is cheating

What do you call a guy who wins a fight by cheating... the winner.

Why is it cheating to have lesser daedra to fight for you, especially when you are saving on the expensive armor perks, playing as a batlemage? Your lack of sense is baffling.

I agree, there is no quick burn high damage direct target line of spells for mages in this game. I can build a defensive caster concept with wards or a shield that can stand toe to toe with the toughest in the game from a defensive perspective but there is no "quick damage burn and churn" spell line for Skyrim. Our best damage per second line for single mob targeting is conjuration.

So, we cannot build a fast damage glass cannon mage concept character in this game. But I personally do not want one

That said, my mage can and does head to the front and stand toe to toe with the bad guy to deal with the trouble. I have a variety of tools at my disposal to accomplish this task including dual casting bolt spells w/ impact, ice storm w/ deep freeze. He can and does wears heavy armor and use a shield but does so rarely currently. I have returned to the heavy armor perk tree and he will be switching his archmage robes for daedric armor soon enough

I have stood toe to toe with elder dragons and death lords staggering them while my Dremora Lord (soon to be lords) dices and slices them.
I have stood in a locked room crawling with undead including a skeletal dragon, releasing ice storms around myself and my trusted Frost Atronach minion intermixed with targeted flame bolts while he pounds undead minions to dust.

I am not a damage dealer, although I can deal damage as needed.
I am not a tank, although I can tank as needed.
I am not a thief, although I can be invisible as needed.
I am not a healer, although I can heal as needed.

I am a controller and manipulator, I am a battle mage, I am a king maker

http://skyrimcalculator.com/#6378

I think my next character will be a spell sword concept. I have to say I miss the mysticism line and the power of the alteration line in Skyrim, these losses have made my king maker concept mage much less versatile in this game.

With impact destruction is just as easy. Some opponents can even posses your summons and turn them on you so you are only going to use destruction anyways.

This is a concern I share. There is less versatility in my toolkit. I would like to see staves do something in this game like charge destruction spells with additional effects or damage modifications.

That said, our spells scale by spell addition rather than within spells and it would be more useful and interesting if we had a method of adding effects or even having more spells with more effects.

Indeed conjuring pets and spamming fireballs does require a lot of intelligence.

Destruction with impact is as easy as block with power bash.



Some opponents can even disarm your weapon so you are just going to go with fists anyway. An equally silly statement.

Destruction is not the tool you use in this game as a mage to kill anything other than the weaker opponents. It is the tool you use to control the flow of battle to ensure your allies are reaping machines.

Intelligence is how you manage the tools and resources at your disposal effectively and for your maximum advantage. So, you are absolutely correct, if that is all you can figure out to do with the tools at hand, then this is not showing a lot of intelligence. Fortunately for people who choose to play this way, this game is pretty easy so you can get away with that if you lack the imagination, intelligence and skill to challenge yourself to do better.

Except your "allies" are busy starring at the wall 20 feet behind you. And that last bit...you are wrong, oh so very wrong. I think you mean Illusion, or Conjuration, but not destruction. Destruction's only purpose is to hurt things. Restoration is support, Illusion is support, Alteration used to be support but now it's only usable by yourself. Destruction is not support, it is a skill used to deal damage much like 1 hand or 2 hand with warriors. Do you consider those skills support? I think not.

I can only assume that this was your first ES game, because destruction magic in other games was rather potent, and could easily hold its own against the other damaging skills.

Agreed, if not easier. However we are discussing magic so warriors are not relevant.



Once again, warriors are not relevant.

Perhaps this is why people are so hung up with the perception that mages are broken and destruction is currently worthless. You mistake the definition of the word used to describe the spell line with how the spell line functions. You have decided that your definition of what the line should be and is not means the mage class is broken.

I get it, if I leveraged the destruction line expecting it to be a skill used to deal damage much like 1 hand or 2 hand with warrior I would probably be disappointed with it as well.

Perhaps we should petition Bethesda to change the name of the spell line to "Control", I wonder if that would change the perception.

I tend to leverage a tool to sort out what it is best for and use it for that rather than try to bend the tool to meet my perception of what it should be.

Additionally, this is not my first TES game. It is my 5th. I have an active Oblivion game and and semi active Morrowind game currently as well. That said, you are correct Destruction has changed in function with this game, Mysticism is gone and Alteration is not at all what it once was. Other things have changed as well, including what Destruction is and how it is best used.

Thank you, I really get where the "Destruction is broken" crowd is coming from now, that really makes sense to me. I think it is misguided but at least it makes sense now.

I think a lot of people will find destruction more useful if they decide to use other skills. I for one find it very strong.

I never said warriors were relevant, I was just pointing out that this is nothing new and is present in other classes as well. Warriors happened to be the easy comparison because I play one as a secondary game.

Its impossible to 'just' use destruction. Even in Morrowind or Oblivion, you would use other schools of magic when the time called for it. But if damage had to be dealt, you knew it was time to whip out the old fire in the face spell and lay some hurt on your enemies. In Skyrim, you get a better return on your magicka spent if you just frenzied the boss of the room. Not that I think that is an illegitimate way to play, far from it. I do think though, that destruction in its current form lacks the 'destruction' part. The only thing destroyed using destruction spells is your magicka bar.

Now if you're an NPC you can get your ice spear to hit for OVER 9000 or what have you while it instantly teleports itself into our skulls, but we aren't npcs.

There is a lot more to being "a mage" than Destruction. Yes, Destruction totally svcks in this game and was an essential part of a typical mage's arsenal to deal damage. This however does not mean all of the magic schools are bad. If you want to "take out a room full of enemies while not walking backwards" then invest in Conjuration and Illusion. You'll be able to deal much more damage than your Rogue type character and it won't rely on just summons or controlled enemies.



No you won't.



Except for the fact that it's not "strong". People just looooove to talk about Impact as though you can't get a superior effect from Illusion or Alteration. Impact is also the ONLY reason you would ever cast a single Destruction spell at higher levels and difficulty, NOT the damage. For this purpose Alteration > Illusion >>>>>>>>>>> Destruction.

Ok, was misunderstanding where you were going.

100% Agree.

I think as soon as people stop trying to twist what Destruction is to meet their perception of what it should be and use it for what it actually does then perhaps they will find that is a very useful spell line. I think the biggest mistake Bethesda made here was not changing the name of the spell line.

Illusion and Conjuration are both amazingly powerful on their own, and IMO still fun(though Illusion is too binary IMO, it either does nothing or gives total control). Destruction has it's problems and is pretty bad unless you exploit alchemy and enchanting. Alteration is kind of boring and seems pointless other than for the magic resist and absorption perks, since light armor can reach armor-cap w/out exploits, can be enchanted and has superior mobility than unarmored if you go up to wind-walker with perks.

Wear light armor with -destruction mods. Easy mode.