Mages are ridiculous #2! : V - Skyrim

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 7:47 am

And how many of those 2000 spells to you think people actually used?

there was certainly way more usefull damage spells mid-late game compared to Skyrim.

thats undisputable.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:44 am

/sigh.

You want to be DPS gods. I get it. Good luck to you.

Insulting? Pfft, how much sympathy would you have for warriors with no armor/block skills? That's what I mean by monotree failures.

Destro kills about anything; slowly perhaps but it does.

As I said you want to be the DPS gods; good luck.

Find me a class with two trees only matching conj and illusion.

If you want to complain about destro, you need to consider the bigger picture and make a more specific thread title/poll

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:44 am

And how many of those 2000 spells to you think people actually used?

I have no idea... but there are more GOOD spells in that 2000 list than there is in skyrim thats for sure...

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 5:58 am

there was certainly way more usefull damage spells mid-late game compared to Skyrim.

thats undisputable.

I'm not denying that, but 2000 is overboard, especially when you can't delete the spells so they just clutter up your magic menu...

Personally, I believe that Bethesda dumbed magic down too much. What were they thinking when they removed spell-making (one of the best things about being a mage) and slowing magicka regeneration in combat even when you have enchantments to combat that. What the hell is the reasoning for that?

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:40 am

I welcome all the mage complaints....maybe if there's a loud enough nerd shout then bethesda will hear it atop their high pedestal on high hrothgar and do something about it.

I love this game but was highly disappointed with destruction magic as I really love a pure destruction mage character, the new fire effects are just cool looking fireworks and thats a shame.

At least I still have my pure 2h barbarian nord and he's coming along nicely with no issues as I lvl up...wuuthrad is aloy weaker then I hoped and disappointingly cant be fine tuned but I still use it just on principle, the leader of the companions should weild the legendary axe of legend

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 8:06 pm

fortify one-handed potion + weakness to [insert whatever your weapons are enchanted with] = STILL MORE DAMAGE

...just saying.

I actually read something wrong. I find your mod intriguing but could you make the damage configurable? I would prefer the dual-casting damage and mana cost stay where they are.

Also you change a lot of other things that I wouldn't want, possibly separate them into separate mods?

I wouldn't mind expert level versions of runes and wall of .

BTW the damage sprays and wall of are the same spell except the effect it also leaves on the ground, thus it makes no sense to make higher level versions of the sprays, but the walls it does.
And these ideas are good but if you could keep the same mana to damage ratio the same for each spell, or just configurable?

I know its a lot to ask before you even have your hands on the creation kit. How do you even do these things before creation kit anyways? Does oblivion esm technology still work?

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 8:53 am

/sigh.

You want to be DPS gods. I get it. Good luck to you.

Insulting? Pfft, how much sympathy would you have for warriors with no armor/block skills? That's what I mean by monotree failures.

Destro kills about anything; slowly perhaps but it does.

As I said you want to be the DPS gods; good luck.

Find me a class with two trees only matching conj and illusion.

If you want to complain about destro, you need to consider the bigger picture and make a more specific thread title/poll

A warrior with a good 2h-sword(that was found enchanted) could easily manage himself and do better in battle than a mage using only destruction because the spells don't scale...
And i never said i wanted to be a DPS-god.. When did i say that?
You know exactly what i mean and what we are discussing but you just keep acting like a complete [censored]..

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 6:30 am

That was not my question. Answer the question.

It's not my fault my Mage is capable.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 6:32 pm

I welcome all the mage complaints....maybe if there's a loud enough nerd shout then bethesda will hear it atop their high pedestal on high hrothgar and do something about it.

I love this game but was highly disappointed with destruction magic as I really love a pure destruction mage character, the new fire effects are just cool looking fireworks and thats a shame.

At least I still have my pure 2h barbarian nord and he's coming along nicely with no issues as I lvl up...wuuthrad is aloy weaker then I hoped and disappointingly cant be fine tuned but I still use it just on principle, the leader of the companions should weild the legendary axe of legend

You can always hope... But i am afraid these things can't be fixed after release...

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 8:34 am

mages are awesome and incredibly powerful. as for loot, you can and should wear any light or heavy armor, crafted and enchanted. you also get to use staffs, but i don't, because casting with two-hands is awesome.

thunderbolt literally disintegrates dragons, magic is freaking awesome.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 6:31 pm

That was not my question. Answer the question.

It's not my fault my Mage is capable.

I'm sorry but i didn't find the question in your post..

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 7:08 pm

I actually read something wrong. I find your mod intriguing but could you make the damage configurable? I would prefer the dual-casting damage and mana cost stay where they are.

Also you change a lot of other things that I wouldn't want, possibly separate them into separate mods?

I wouldn't mind expert level versions of runes and wall of .

BTW the damage sprays and wall of are the same spell except the effect it also leaves on the ground, thus it makes no sense to make higher level versions of the sprays, but the walls it does.
And these ideas are good but if you could keep the same mana to damage ratio the same for each spell, or just configurable?

I know its a lot to ask before you even have your hands on the creation kit. How do you even do these things before creation kit anyways? Does oblivion esm technology still work?

I'm using Fall Out Mod Manager (FOMM) and sifting through a bunch of hex values trying to logically deduce what they mean. Then altering numbers, jumping in game to playtest, rinse and repeat. It's... challenging. But pretty rewarding when I see people enjoying the game more because of it.

I will probably do a few variations to increase the range of difficulty. I spent a lot of time doing the math to try to make sure it was as fair and balanced as possible - but I know some players enjoy more of a challenge while others just get frustrated when their mage is so much more difficult to play. It's hard to make the perfect balance for every player.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:29 am

mages are awesome and incredibly powerful. as for loot, you can and should wear any light or heavy armor, crafted and enchanted. you also get to use staffs, but i don't, because casting with two-hands is awesome.

thunderbolt literally disintegrates dragons, magic is freaking awesome.

What level are you, if i may ask?
And mages get bonuses if they wear clothes only... And most of the time the clothes have enchantments for mages so..
And if you wear armor i think that counts as a battlemage.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:35 pm

As I said:

Bold added

A Mage with conj and illusion will match anything, anything. Only thing that will get close is a sneak build.

Tell me something that with two trees, barring sneaking, can match this.

Sneaking breaks about even but is less forgiving error.

As to not asking for dps god, given the impact perk, the comparison with dodgy enchanted/smithed gear...reading between the lines ain't hard.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:26 pm

As I said:

Bold added

As to not asking for dps god, given the impact perk, the comparison with dodgy enchanted/smithed gear...reading between the lines ain't hard.

I am afraid i don't really understand what you mean...

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:21 am

Figures. Let me know when you get it.

Good day.

Edit
Maybe sounds a bit harsh, but that you don't understand my point/question is why you think 'mages' svck.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 8:11 am

Figures. Let me know when you get it.

Good day.

Edit
Maybe sounds a bit harsh, but that you don't understand my point/question is why you think 'magrs' svck.

What? Just because i don't understand as advanced english sentences as you do just because it isn't my native language does that make me think that mages svck?... I am very confused..

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:19 am

destruction is not underpowered at all i'm level 30 on my mage game and i just got the flame wall and frost wall spells and i just mow right throw any enemy that steps in my path ( i don't play on master difficulty but expert ), i have no companions and most of the time i don't even wear the archmage robes so i don't understand why everybody thinks it's weak.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:16 am

I didn't find being a mage hard, I just found it incredibly boring because I was using the same spells over and over again.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 8:08 pm

Last try.

Pick any two perk trees: 2h/1h/heavy armour/resto/pickpocket/etc - you know perk trees.

Find me two and two alone that can keep pace with a character using only illusion and conjuration.

Sneak will draw level, that's IT.

No two skills can match illu/conj. NONE

Edit added 'etc' in case it was unclear

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:49 am

Figures. Let me know when you get it.

Good day.

Edit
Maybe sounds a bit harsh, but that you don't understand my point/question is why you think 'mages' svck.

Your only argument here is that because illusion and conjuration are so awesome, destruction should be allowed to svck. That holds no water at all.

Going illusion/conjuration/destruction and doing fine doesn't prove that destruction is ok. Want proof? Go destruction/restoration/alteration. You'll quickly find that illusion and conjuration were propping destruction up.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 5:38 pm

Last try.

Pick any two perk trees: 2h/1h/heavy armour/resto/pickpocket - you know perk trees.

Find me two and two alone that can keep pace with a character using only illusion and conjuration.

Sneak will draw level, that's IT.

No two skills can match illu/conj. NONE

Ah ok... That will be extremely hard for me to do since i haven't tried all the combinations yet... But smithing and enchanting gets you far..
But that doesn't matter.. what matters is destruction magic and the amount of spells in the game right now and i am sorry if i didn't make it clear in the main post

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:48 pm

'Good'

if your a winner

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:33 am

Your only argument here is that because illusion and conjuration are so awesome, destruction should be allowed to svck. That holds no water at all.

Going illusion/conjuration/destruction and doing fine doesn't prove that destruction is ok. Want proof? Go destruction/restoration/alteration. You'll quickly find that illusion and conjuration were propping destruction up.

Did I say that? Find me a quote where I said that.

I said MAGES are overpowered. And they basically are.

Bet a pickpocket only thief is crap as well.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:20 pm

Well I go Conjuration/Destruction and I do fine.

Conjuration is great for distracting enemies, and Destruction is great for damage and keeping the distraction alive.

By that I mean Impact. Great for keeping your allies alive or enemies in place.