Well, as you all know there has been some complaints on the mages in skyrim.. i was once against all that and though that mages were awesome, but now when i have actually played a while with a mage i got to admit that they svck..
There is so extremely few spells wich is incredibly boring, there are no good ''armors'' for mages either(by armors i mean clothes)! They could atleast have added i bit more options right? Just look at all the warriors, they get the good loot, epic swords, a wide variety of armors and more.. What does mages get? Some spells and some robes.. The archmage robe is the best thing i have come across anyways.. and the masks you get from the dragon priests are heavy or light armor! So if you wear them you don't get the bonuses for restoration.
And 3 atronachs? Is that it? Horrible is what it is...
Now i have said what i think atleast... (i just copied from the other thread)

Feel free to continue discussing here!

*puts on flamesuit*
Oh and i'm focusing mainly on the Destruction school here and how it is underpowered..
And also that there are so few spells...
Just read the comments to get better insight!

I have yet to have a problem at level 24, but I guess I will have to wait and see once I get to higher levels.

Yeah that's one problem i've discovered... the spells don't level with you, so your fire(the first ones) spells is worthless at higher levels...
Pretty bad since enemies level with you too.

My Altmer mage with One Handed as a emergency skill turned out pretty well. Lydia takes all the shots while I hurl two-handed fireballs to the enemy. The aiming is difficult because of the horrid mouse control, but otherwise I am content.
I have no clue what kind of armors mages can use. I'd be hoping for at least light - clothing is not good against Saber kitties.

My mage is level 34.

He slaughters enemies by the truck load, never has magicka issues, and never worries about melee combat because nothing can even touch him.

I think Mages are fine.

Stoneflesh coupled with the perk in alteration give you about 180 armor with robes.

Destruction really does svck at high level. It's not really that it is bad, as stagger is overpowered, it is just poorly designed. Expert and master spells are utterly worthless (whoever designed them is an idiot, the mana costs of expert make no sense) so you'll find yourself using your adept spells ALL the time, which still do crap damage on higher difficulty settings. It gets so repetitive and boring so fast...

yay another uninformed mage thread.

Mages are fine. We don't need you making thread after thread over how you can't play the class but blame the game because of it.

Once your skill gets high enough, the mages in the college of winterhold will have new spells for your skill level automatically available.

just got my character to level 27 with enchanting to 80 so i was able to make four enchantments with 23% reduction for destruction spells finally. now i can actually fight effectively in battle, i.e. use spells more than three/ four times then running. still doesn't help that enemy's have a lot more health than me and there spells level though. i feel like I'm going to have like 5 sets of 4 items with a 100% reduction in destruction with a 100% reduction in cost for each other school with it on each set. it svcks that i need to do that but i dont want to waste all 25 points in the level perks(novice, apprentice etc.) to have the privilege of casting high level spells. i want to use perks for actual perks that boost spells.

I wish the "spray" spells from the start of the game could be used effectively at later levels. Is this something that could be modded? The feeling of a jet of flames coming out of your hand is great, but I had to stop using it due to it's low damage after a few levels.

I user light armor and a sword along with spells. When dragon killing time comes around, I put on the Archmage robe and the Morokei dragon mask for the extra spell casting boost. Occasionally I will use a staff to save mana.

i know what you mean. "Wall of flames" does kinda does the same thing but it needs to be sprayed on the floor, it doesn't do allot if any of direct damage

can you make staffs in this game?

Alteration
Main purpose is protective, an alternative to armor for mages. It's not terrible at this, but it's also beaten pretty clearly by it's competitions as all significant penalties for armor are negated later on in the game while alteration spells will still cost a chunk of magicka and won't be on all the time like armor. Through perks, it also offers magical protection - 30% absorption and 30% resist magic is pretty nice. However, there's a large perk investment to reach those, and enchanting and other means of acquiring such seem like superior options. Paralyze is strong but Illusion offers superior crow control options. Overall a pretty bland school and one I'd stay away from personally since pretty much everything it does can be done better. It has one gem of a spell however, an obscure one that luckily doesn't require any investment into the tree. Equilibrium converts health into magicka at a decent rate. This is great for training restoration for obvious reasons, but also simply a nice tool to have as there are plenty of occasions when that magicka is more important than the health it costs.

Strength/Usefulness 4/10
Design/Fun Factor 3/10

Conjuration
Conjuration is essentially a magical alternative or supplement to companions. It serves this purpose very well, with powerful summons and thralls to take the heat of you as well as dish out damage. A certain summon is probably overpowered even, I think any conjurers will know which I'm thinking of. You can go heavily into the tree for improved atronachs or undead and eventually two of them, but even without heavy investment you get some solid options with just the expert level spells. It can also bring you temporary magical weapons which don't really compete with the best smith improved weapons, but still hold their own pretty well and are especially great early game with the perk to improve them. Unfortunately, the bound weapons are limited compared to previous games. Still, easily my favorite school in Skyrim.

Strength/Usefulness 10/10
Design/Fun Factor 9/10

Destruction
It's name makes it's purpose fairly obvious, but unfortunately it fails to deliver for many players. It's damage doesn't scale and it's high level spells cost too much magicka. Some players report a positive experience or at least have been able to make it work for them using various tricks and techniques or other skills to support it, but I'd recommend passing on it unless you're adamant about shocking, burning, and/or freezing stuff which is entirely understandable. Depressing, considering they've done so much with the actual spell mechanics in destruction - placing walls and rune traps in particular I was hopeful about. It does have a secondary purpose however, perhaps not intended to be as powerful as it is, the impact perk is probably the best tool in the game for keeping enemies off the player.

Strength/Usefulness 3/10
Design/Fun Factor 7/10

Illusion
Illusion is mainly about control, but also a stealth supplement quieting your spells, your footsteps, and even making yourself invisible. The control aspect of the tree requires some pretty heavy perk investments, but will end up being very powerful for escape or avoidance, or for making enemies do your work for you by inciting them into violence against each other - which is amusing if possibly overpowered. A good school but demands a lot of perks just to make it's spells reliably function at higher levels, and probably too powerful once you have.

Strength/Usefulness 9/10
Design/Fun Factor 7/10

Restoration
Maybe not the most exciting, but certainly one of the most universally useful. Most if it's best perks are very accessible in the lower part of it's tree/sign, and to do it's main job you don't need a heavy investment into the tree. It's non-healing spells however are pretty lackluster. Wards are a waste of mana, and the undead specific spells are, well, too specific to be worth spending perks to improve. Wards had potential to be an interesting mechanic to use in combat at least, but still a very lacking school. It's a one trick pony currently, though trick just happens to be one of the best. Unfortunately though, it's one trick is undeniably done better via potions, but I'm not sure I can dock restoration any points over this, since alchemy is obviously broken.

Strength/Usefulness 6/10
Design/Fun Factor 3/10

I made one thread, it got 260 replies so i made this one for people to continue discussing...

Mages bad, spells even worse.

Nope... And i have no idea why..

i wonder if all the spell tomes, scrolls and staffs are imported from china in Skyrim... since nobody including you can make them, where the hell are they coming from?

I have not played a mage yet, but I also find mages as opponents (NPC's) to be seriously weak.

I play a stealth archer and it usually takes no more than 2 hits with poison to get rid of them.

Very underwhelming (at least in the few areas I have explored).

And I think the problem is the lack of armor as the original posted stated.

The spell selection at mid-high levels is abysmal due to no scaling and horrible Master spells. I end up having less damage spell options than Dragon Age....jesus christ...




Why is it always the other side of this "arguement" who flames.

I know...
There were 2000 good spells in oblivion.. there are 92 ''good'' spells in skyrim...

because a mage used an invisibility spell to steal his sweet roll...

I don't think they're necessarily bad; they just aren't as good from a numbers standpoint because of crafting as other "classes" and they have questionable mechanics that lead to problems at mid-high levels.

Mages don't even benefit from their own crafting skill (enchanting) as well as other classes do! The only way to increase mage damage is to use the thief crafting skill (alchemy), and that's only for 30-60 seconds at a time, which is completely absurd. The only way to improve your character with enchanting is by reducing costs, and by making your character "godly" in a specific skill, you're basically negating all the magicka upgrades you've spent by leveling up. So, you're magicka starved nearly constantly because regen is so bad that you need to level it up, but once you get enchanting to the level you need to, you don't need magicka anymore! I don't think Bethesda's idea that reducing magicka costs as your skill levels up and as enchanting effects is a good one, all they do is remove magicka from being something the player has to worry about while their spells hit for peanuts. Meanwhile, archers and warriors can use your skill to add +40% damage increases on items ON TOP OF smithing all their weapons and armor to legendary status.

Reducing costs also has the effect of making mages into 1 spell machines; since you can spam Incinerate continuously, why do anything else? All your other spells; concentration spells like flames, runes, aoe spells, cloak, they all become silly to cast since there's never a good reason to use them anymore. However, having the damage scale rather than the magicka cost with skill and enchantments allow spells to retain their utility, since expert nukes would cost a prohibitive amount of magicka, but would hit for a truckload. Juggling spells for mana management would still be meaningful, your damage would go up as your skill in destruction and enchanting were improved, and you could kill things without having to spam the same spell forever like you have to do now.

I have a 50 mage, and level 36 sneaky archer with 1 handed, and the difference in power in favor of the archer is laughable. So, that's why they're "bad." They can be fun to play until you get to the high levels of mage skills, because that's when different aspects of the class start working against themselves, and your spells hit a ceiling.

I think you can make scrolls..
Not entirely sure though..

And why they removed spell making i have no idea either... Why would they make such a descision?! It's [censored] stupid...
And why the hell can't you make staffs? they are pretty hard to find too...