He consented to the soultrap though. And soultrapping is mysticism, not necromancy.

lol yeah well like I said necromancers are not necessarily evil. Also Traven told you to soultrap him. He actually did the spell himself.

True you can also join the "Evil" Dark Brotherhood but a soon to be archmage? evil? not possible (note that this is not my oppinion, just the view i get if i would only've played Obl )



Indeed it is however you should know that the schools of magic are just constructs of men, introduced to help scholars understand and learn about magic. And the soultrapping of Humanoids (Men, Mer and Beastfolk) is clearly Necromancy as one has to go to all sorts of means in order to bypass http://the%20laws%20of%20Arkay.

Well upon rereading this article i wonder why traven needed a black soulgem, since the blessing of Arkay was not violated as he consented. Another thing of notice in this small book is that the KW doesn't seem to have anything against the mages guild but more against the priests of Arkay. Anyway i'm of to bed GN all

If Arkay protects from soultrapping, it is not his conscious action, but rather an arbitrary law of nature in effect on Nirn.

I've always thought of necromancers as researchers, in a way they are able to understand more and more about peoples bodies,the undead and the powers of necromancy but because of knowing this and an access to such power it corrupts many necromancers but not always as some are able to know from what is going a little unmoral such as grave robbing and to studying a school of magicka.

Necromancy is not evil. Actually evil and good is just perspective. Evil people never think their evil. If any of the npc's in oblivion are evil it is the damn priests of the nine divines! They are so closed minded and that in my opinion is evil. Those who can't think for themselves and just rely on faith of their gods. I do admit though I'm disapointed in the necromancers that follow mannimarco. They should be trying to become the most powerful they can be. Not working as a henchman for another.

But, the Arkay clergy haven't done much to stop them.

As far as I know this is the whole story behind the problems between the Necromancers, Mages, and Priests of Arkay. Necromancers hate the priests of Arkay. The funerals that those priests do protect the people from a Necromancers magic. So Necromancers don't usually grave rob anymore because boddies buried by these priests can't be re-animated. But Traven for reasons of his own (this is conjecture but I believe its for personal reasons) he banned necromancy. Necromancy is legal in cyrodil. The body and soul is considered the property of a person and if a necromancer uses a persons body or soul without consent he is stealing but the craft itself is legal. But the mages in a way are illegally pursecuting my kind because we desire to study all magic not just the narrow view of mages! Although I don't mind the necromancers of mannimarco being pursecuted since they are also almost as narrowminded as the mages. Mannimarco himself however is a genius. XD

Blasphemer!

Agreed and is mannimarco a bosmer because that would make him more annoying than he is. Plus its ok it took me one try to beat mannimarco but at least 20 to beat falcar haha.

No arguements here. He's planning something big. He's tried to get an undead Lord Kain on the throne of Hammerfell (Fortunately, Lord Jaren and Garridan thwarted him). He's detailed plans to overthrow worship of Arkay. And of course, he wants to destroy the Mages Guild.

As for corpses, necromancers can't use santified bodies, so they either need to kill foolhardy bandits and adventurers, or steal from older burial locations.

Or get the permission from the dead before they die or use the bodies of their allies when they die.

The only blasphemy is when a person narrows his mind to the views set before him by others. That includes powerful archmages and the nine divines.

Yeah it is narrow minded like the views of dunmer or dwemer as evil.

No, they're too busy harassing Namira's Forgotten in remote ruins to do anything about the Necromancer cult, which no one outside the Mages Guild seems to even be aware of its existence (what with the Emperor's assassination, Oblivion Crisis, and that terrible mudcrab menace on everyone's mind). And the "living saint" Erandil had the audacity to pass the buck onto the Mages Guild.

I don't think it it's self is evil just how you use it. Like some good could come from it like if your in a war and all your troops die just call your Necromancers and have them reanimate their corpses then boom instant army :hehe:

It should be pointed out that some of the most depraved of villains (such as Mannimarco, for instance) don't believe in good or evil.

It should also be noted that this thread is pretty old....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pisuerga

Yeah...you basically said what you quoted, CP...

Ironic, considering it's a thread about necromancy...


Actually, I was basically saying that those that don't believe in good or evil are often a lot nastier, and if you believe in it, evil, than those that don't, but are misguided.

Although some people that believe in good or evil seem to press their moral views on others, they are only doing what they think is "good." Likewise, those that are only after power I find to be a lot more "evil "because they only care about their own gain and have no scruples about doing anything that will increase their power.

At least outside of the Dunmer religion, necromancy is often associated with crimes, given the need for corpses, and with the temptation of increasing one's power and achieving immortality through lichdom, it can be a dangerous road even for those who are not particulary "evil".

In my opinion, necromancy in itself isn't evil. Some of it's spells and ritual can be considered to be - dragging a soul against its will back into a rotting corpse to animate it isn't exactly the nicest thing to do.

Necromancers also would ba de diverse lot, ranging form the decent person with questionable interests to the truly nasty. In my opinion most necromancers fall into a few categories :

* researcher : they're mostly interested in the how and why, exploring a discdredtied area of knowledge for all it's worth. Without giving much thought about the methods and cosnequences of these researchs.
* power hungry : the ability to blur the line between life and death, possibly escaping the chains of mortality, while basically flipping the finger to the gods by ignoring the way things are supposed to be, is a rather heady power trip.
* the boos : the sort of guy who expected a level of subservience and docility from his underling that can be acheived with mortals only through magical coercition - not convenient as it needs to be constantly renewed. Daedras are a pain to bind on the long run, necromancy is the most convenient way to get suitably subservient underlings. Either because he like it that way, or has despicable enough goals/methods/personality that he need the control.

I'm not fully informed about this subject, but I thought that when reanimating someone's corpse, that doesn't necessarily mean it's their soul which is bound to said corpse. In conjuration, you summon a random soul from Oblivion, whose essence than takes form here, and if you have control, is loyal to you. The summons don't appear to be very intelligent, or aware of itself. You can't just summon whoever you want to.

In necromancy this could be different, because you bind the soul to the corpse, in order to reanimate it.

Sadly, I do not know enough about this to clearly form an opinion of good or evil about this. If anyone could enlighten me on the difference between the use of souls in conjuration and necromancy, that would be great.

Oh they are, they are just bound to do your will due to the magic, otherwise they'd probably be ripping you apart out of annoyance, note the scamp summoned in one morrowind mages guild quest that turned on its summoner due to his incompetence, they are not mindless, a better example might be the dremora the temple summons to act as Mehrunes at two shrines in morrowind as well, they seem quite able, of [censored] your corpse that is.


Well one of them does.

He did assure us he'd be gentle.