I known that Arch Mage Traven banned Necromancy but before that it was not banned. Did the mages guild allow evil or is necromancy not necessarily evil? If so then are liches necessarily evil?

It is a misconception that *ALL* necromancy is evil. Take for instance, the Dunmer religious necromancy, which is done with the spirit of the departed's permission.
Like all magick, it can be used beneficially and responsibly-- or it can be used detrimentally and irresponsibly.

I'd say that just like greater bonewalkers and skeleton champions in Morrowind can be benign, if not benevolent (to dunmer)--- That a lich can be beneficial, and benevolent as well.

Ok thats interesting news I was just confused because initially I thought that that was the case yet in oblivion you never see a necromancer that doesnt attack you or in the case of the D.B. you have to assassinate.

Morrowind, Bloodmoon expansion.


Draugre (SP?) named Aeslip has been spending the past 500+ years holding a set of rather NASTY frost attronachs pent up in the bottom of lake fjalding. He did so for the protection of the world, and became an undead monster simply to maintain his barriers indefinitely.

Lich Lord name Balizar in tribunal expansion. Cursed for creating his transdimentional portal ring, to become said lich lord. He only battles you to prevent you from getting the ring, and laments openly when you defeat him and take it from him.

Oblivion:
Vampire, Count Skingraad. Rules the county of Skingraad as the benevolent count, and keeps his vampirism a secret.



The problem is that Oblivion is "generic fantasy", while Morrowind was High Fantasy. High Fantasy challenges stereotypes, while generic fantasy relies on them. The only interesting tidbits were the count, and such in Oblivion.

Yeah I agree I think from what I have heard to date the most interesting story in TES is that of the dwemer. I wish they werent dead!

Well, there is one ghost that is not insane and helped the nerevarine, and one living dwemer, but he's losing his mind and body

well that svcks for him then lol and why is he still alive?

Yagram? I believe that he wasn't in the province at the time, so whatever the Hell happened didn't affect him. That, or something of the sort. I wouldn't be sure. It's been about a year since I've visited Yagram, let alone done anything to do with the Main Quest.

Who said they were dead? We only know that they've disappeared, and Yagrum proves to us that it is possible that they could have survived.

I hope so because they are much better than Tolkein dwarves or any other kind and for once they are normal height. I have always hated Tolkein dwarves but the dwemer are freakin awesome.

Most Necromancers are what I like to call 'Morally Bankrupt', which typically comes with their craft. Necromancy is a seductive power, one that can lead a person astray from whatever original goal they may have had when they began. This is usually, but not always, the case. As for Hanibal Traven its unknown why he did what he did when he banned Necromancy. To me it seems to have strictly been a personall matter.

You make it sounds like the Dark Side of the Force.

Does necromany really corrupt the user's soul or is that merely propaganda?

Not propaganda at all. I actually read everything I come accross, some of which is research notes. From what little I gathered a Necromancer may have have some noble goal at the begining but as they learn more and gain more power through what they learn they change. Sounds a lot like the Dark Side of the Force, I agree, but there's little room for doubt. Unless the mage's will is extremely strong Necromancy will corupt the user's soul.

That would take away the mystery.



Wasn't he slowly regaining his mind?

A better parable would be money. In many, many cases, this has been true: the more you have, the more you want. I reckon it would be the same with necromancers, but with knowledge isntead of capital. To have power over life and death, however supposititious that power may be, must be extremely seducing, much more so than money, and both "enlivening" and "satisfying" at the same time, like with all kind of power.
I don't like the whole "corrupting souls" talk, by the way. Make it sound far too simple and black and white. Necromancy isn't corrupting anybody, if anything, the people using it are corrupting themselves. If they, for example, would "specialize" in Destruction, or Restoration for that matter, they would use it the same (well, in an equal) way.

Everyone seems to have skipped over the fact the Telvani are openly Necromancers in MW, increasing their lifespans by hundreds, and even up to thousands of years. Also, there was a Necromancer in the Balmora Mages guild.

The Morrowind Mages Guild is not powerful enough to stand up against the Telvanni.

And not many knew that Sharn Gra-Muzgrob was a necromancer.



What do you people think about the above passage from "The Black Arts on Trial"?

I think it's biased. To say that all Necromancy is evil, by extension says the the Ghostfence is evil.

The main reasoning as to why Necromancy is frowned upon, and in alot of cases Illegal, is that it requires the use of body (and sometimes soul), which in most cases the person whose body and soul being used hasn't given the rights of use to the Necromancer; similar a case as to when Doctors used to dig up fresh bodys to experiment on, HOWEVER there is still the posibility of giving your body and soul over to a necromancer legally in the persons will, which WOULD be legal, and is now what happens in the medical world.

A reasoning as to why the Mages Guild banned necromancy is that many of the Necromancers would have been using illegally gotten 'supplies', and as such the Guild could face the Imperial Justice System, which would be VERY bad because they rely mainly on Imperial Funding.

Yes I agree, however one must not forget that Necromancy is also dangerous. For example the Black soulgems can svck up your own soul if you hold them etc. I don't think the policy was just political, Traven seemed to have believed in his decision. Also as I noted elsewhere, IMHO the Mannimarco was working on overthrowing the guild for a long time (at least since the end of Daggerfall but perhaps even sooner). I don't think that "half of the council of mages resigned" just because of the ban. They resigned because they already were working withe the Worm. Traven just surfaced things. One question which haunts me tho is how the hell he got voted in in the first place... (and I mean it in a "miracle" kind of way, not "bad idea" kind of way. I'm generally pro-Traven )

Necromancy is generally known to be evil.

why?
how?


Is it the necromancers that are evil or is it the art of necromancy itself that is evil?

Let's see... Cutting corpses through pieces to summon them makes people very good doesn't it? Summoning vengeaful spirits that will kill anyone it sees, Wearing black robes with red skulls on them is a sign of love isn't it? Aaaaaaaaand digging graves ti get to their corpses. That all proves Necromancers wickidness

The first line is not true and not untrue in anyway- that's subjective. Not all necromancers (not to say no necromancers) summon spirits, and the fact they kill anyone they see is 1) not true 2) game mechanics. The black robe with red skull is not Necromancer, but Cultist of Mannimarco. And Necromancers most often don't dig graves. Normally, they receive corpses from the government, and if they're outlawed Necromancers, they mostly do with corpses they find, and even less often they retreat to killing travellers.

So, anyhow, even if my statement is incorrect, yours is too.

recieve corpses from goeverment? what is this, area 51?