Hey lore masters, I need some aid with a logical problem concerning the nature of Magic and magical affinities. Quite simply, I'd like to know why some races like the Altmer have a higher affinity to magic then others and by extension some individuals have more natural affinity then others. If I remember correctly (feel free to tell me if I'm wrong), magic is a kind of universal force delivered from Aetherius through the holes\stars in the sky and through the sun: Magnus. If this is the case, then why is magical ability more apparent in some races than others?

Also, another thing that has perplexed me a bit, is the relationship between intelligence and willpower to magic. Are magic spells forged through "willing" it into existence or is it studied using the intellect? Orzorn tried to explain it, but I still don't get it .

Thanks in advance.

Intelligence and willpower don't exist as measureable quantities. Their use in the games and how it translates to lore has always confused me, not the least because it changes constantly.

But remember that magic can be cultural as well as racial.

I forgot what the dialogue topics said about these attributes in Morrowind.

Intelligence: understanding the abstract concepts in sorcery and the skill required to manipulate magicka.
Willpower: realizing how much of your own will can manipulate magicka.

It's a gameplay issue mostly. However, you can say that willpower allows you to concentrate on meditation.

The 2920 series has a nice example of how willpower keeps a spell up and going. As long as the students can ignore the flames, the spell holds and they aren't burned even though they walking through a burning pool.

edit:

Although that might also be intelligence as it requires you to be smart enough to realize that fire won't be able to hurt you.

The two best wizarding races; Bretons and Alter, live in lands where the ancient godly monuments were built. The Direnni Tower and the other one.

That's probably why they've got bags full of mana.

Direnni Tower and Adamantia are one and the same.

Whats the one in Sumurset then called?

Crystal-Like-Law

So, you're saying that the Towers' inherent magic exposes the races living around them to it and thus gives them higher affinities? That would make sense. It's similar to a sort of genetic mutation, the magic altering those around it.

If I am reading your question correctly,the Bretons have this because of through generations of birth in High Rock,kinda like the European's building tolerances to colds and flus and the Native Americans had none.I am sure it is the same for High elfs it is just a matter of genes.

That's what he's saying, but he's wrong. There is a power in every profince, so that's clearly not the reason.

Its msotly cultural. The Aldmer stuck to the old ways, magic and Aetherius, while the men adapted to the new ways, physical pursuits and Nirn itself. Thus, the Aldmer are masters of magic and the humans masters of military endeavors.

Don't listen to that bull. It's partially inherent within their high elven lineage and partially to the focus of their culture.

High Elven culture holds magicka sacred. It's part of their culture, which preserves everything related to their immortality. Bretons, essentially having elven heritage coming from Direnni rule, inheriting their predisposition to magicka part but not the culture. Magicka isn't held at a higher esteem (except religions dedicated to Magnus), but probably a tool.

Ah, so it's cultural aspects that give some races higher affinities thnn others. I remembered that there was that Redguard in Oblivion who mentioned that his people believed Wizards were weak or wicked people and that he had to go to Cyrodiil to get his training. He also mentioned that he still had prejudices against- I believe- Mysticism because of the soul gems and such. That would certainly explain why few Redguards are wizards- their culture doesn't tolerate the use of magic.

Common sense would dictate that it would be smart not to walk through a wall of fire. Does that mean that the dumber you are, the more easily you can master the college of Alteration?

I think the best example of it is http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/brewater.shtml. Alteration is a "I reject your reality and substitute my own" affair. Intelligence doesn't have much to do with it, I think.

Hmm, perplexing. So you have to will the magic into existence and realise that it won't hurt you whilst ignoring your common sense. That Breathing Water book was interesting, he had to concentrate on his spell to make sure he didn't drown. However, as soon as he forgot about the spell and reality took over, he failed. It seems like enforcing your own reality through willpower is the name of the game in Alteration. That certainly explains the use of willpower in magic- enforcing your whim on reality. Unfortunately, it doesn't explain Intelligence's role- if it even has one.

O.T- Astion was that quote from Mythbusters by any chance?

It makes sense when applied to the college of Destruction, another college that is governed by Willpower. Wizard A hurls a fireball at Wizard B. Wizard A knows the fireball won't burn his hands because he summoned it and the magick is under his control. Wizard B doesn't have that advantage. If his willpower is strong enough, he may be able to negate the effects of the spell, sort of like a Yogi coalwalker. If it isn't, he ends up as a mound of charred flesh.

There might very well be a component of Illusion to Destruction magick... and in fact, there probably is. Perhaps it is better to say that the colleges of Destruction and Illusion are components of a greater, more universal system, seeing as the colleges were an invention of Galerion's that simplified magick use for the greater population. The Psijics of Artaeum, of whom Galerion was a member, had no such distinctions between "colleges" of magick. To them, practice of magick is known as "http://www.imperial-library.info/obbooks/old_ways.shtml", and involves subtle interactions between the physical and spirituals worlds.

Intelligence plays no role in Alteration, Restoration or Destruction. Intelligence governs Mysticism and Conjuration. This might seem counterintuitive, though, since Mysticism is... well... mystical, and would ostensibly involve feats of will rather than of intellect. However, I have always likened mystics and the more esoteric mages in Tamriel to theoretical physicists, because of the http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/benitah.shtml and because of my own aesthetic bent. They have to be familiar with the way that the Aurbis works - how the realms stand in relation to one another. They have to conceptualise rather complex things, such as imperceivable dimensions and bridges between the realms (Wormholes, anyone?). On some level, it is possible to show theoretically that nothing in the Aurbis is separate from anything else, and that the Aurbis doesn't really exist. If you can do this on a purely theoretical basis, you can manipulate the fabric of space and time without worrying about spontaneously evaporating.

As for the quote, it was, indeed. Although I'm not sure whether Adam got it from somewhere else or not.

The Aurbis is apparently a dream isn't it? It is dreamt up by the Godhead, if I remember correctly. To achieve CHIM or Zero-Sum you must realise you are part of the dream. If magic is merely manipulating the fabric of the dream (reality), then wouldn't CHIM and magic be similar? Magic allows you to substitute your own reality through force of willpower. CHIM's purpose is more powerful, since you become like a real-life lucid dreamer. You realise you are either dreaming or are part of a dream and because of this, you can manipulate anything within it.

Perhaps this is where intelligence comes into play. Those that are intelligent enough to realise that magic is a single force understand more about it and thus have a higher degree of proficiency. This then would give them a higher understanding of magic which would translate into more.. magicka? Of course I most probably am talking a load of metaphysical gobbledygook. I suppose the question is, what do we mean by intelligence? If intelligence indicates common sense then it would likely have little to do with magic, since it defies the very fabric of "reality". If by intelligence, we mean attempting to grasp the understanding of the Universe and it's purpose and layout, then magic would play a large role in figuring that out.

What is interesting is your idea Astion that destruction is a form of illusionary magic. Those that believe that the fireball is real and will burn them to a crisp will be indeed burnt to a crisp. Those that believe it will not, won't be hurt. It's a case of mind over matter such as the example of the Yoga master that you gave. The only issue that it brings up is that is it Intelligence or Willpower that stops you believing you won't get hurt? If you are intelligent enough to know that the fireball is merely a illusionary type spell then you do not believe it will hurt you and thus it doesn't. On the other hand, the target's willpower could come into play i.e "This fireball will not hurt me." If he truly believes that then it won't. Essentially, if magic is an illusion then wouldn't realising that be on the step towards CHIM?

Gah, TES metaphysics, it's so confusing. Obviously Occam's Razor does not apply here. Sorry for the incoherent babbling .

Trayvond the Redguard's introduction speech is only partly true. Redguards although preferring to use combat don't have a problem with magic overall. If I recall correctly, they believe some magic are not as useful as others, and therefore should be considered evil. It's called tobr'a meaning "useless and therefore evil" (a concept that I should use more often at certain members here) and categorize several aspects of foreign sorcery.

It is cultural however. Altmer society is extreme in their regards to preservation of their magickal past as a sacred duty in fact.

It all dependen on wherein ye old tree taken rooten.

I think the "waking up" you are talking of takes place through many gradients of consciousness and dreams. It's more like waking up in a dream within a dream within a dream. Ad infinitum.

How does that have anything to do with Magic Affinities?

How? The relation between man, mer and spirit to the Aurbis.. If that's what you are talking about.

Don't confuse yourself.