I partially agree. Let's see:

First a reason not to keep it: spellmaking is a system which can be exploited big time. So perhaps some limitations could be necessary...

Second, "tweaking pre existing spells" as you very well put it may not be the only use of spellmaking. However, it was an important dimension that proved to be very useful and very necessary. Now, if spells scale with player's skill, this advantage of spellmaking will be made redundant.

Third, and here is where I partially agree with you: creating new spells out of existing spell effects added deep, RP possibilities and the like. Again though, this can be included to some extent if on-the-fly spell combinations are finally in. Of course you will be limited to combinations of just two spell effectsbut hey, I find this positive rather than negative. Being able to combine only two spell effects sounds like this more limited and therefore more difficult to exploit spellmaking that I was referring to in the beginning of this post. You can argue that this is too restrictive and too limited. For me though, it's a good compromise.

Tiny Lampe.



Well, they didn't scale with us in Oblivion. That's why I don't take for granted that they will now. However it seems like a logical step to me since Bethesda is trying to get rid of anything they consider redundant -and 5 different versions of the same spell, being damage the only difference, seems pretty redundant to me. We'll see.

1. If you exploited it, then its your fault. You could have easily not exploited it. Plus you could just balance it. With great power comes great responsibility. It takes less control and less effort to turn the difficulty slider all the way down than it does to exploit spell making.

2. Your still dismissing the whole point of spell creation. To use your imagination to make new spells, not tweak pre existing ones. Not to mention you really didnt have to tweak the pre made spells, just adjust the difficulty slier until you find a good medium.

3. Attaching a spell to both hands and both feet for that matter wont replace the depth of spell creation. The new system and spell making are not mutually exclusive. Spell making would be that much better with the new system. Without it though, we are left with a set number of spell/spell combinations.

So yeah, we need spell creation. If anybody doesnt like it, they dont have to use it. Its an optional customization tool that adds depth.

Spellmaking was fine, but it basically was "magical Legos".

Yes you could create countless spells. Yes you could roleplay and whatnot with it. Yes you could many different effects. But all of them were still just magical balls that explode.
It's not just the aesthetics, but the uses too. You could only throw a spell at the target, touch the target or cast the spell on yourself, and it could also explode.

With the new system we would have more variation, magic spells would look unique and they would have their own manner of uses. This, in exchange for Spellcrafting.
Well, we'll also have spell combos which is also Spellcrafting in some form, so yeah, I'm okay with it.

No, they were not.

Yes, it was.

(I could do this all day)

And youd be wrong, for one example, lightning was not a ball. Not to mention all of th other effects that were not in "ball" form.

Yes it was, it just looked different.
All the spells only had the forms of self, target and touch, and with all of them it worked the exact same way.

Let me ask you something. If given spellmaking in Skyrim (like it was in Oblivion), what kinds of depth-filled spells would you make? Also, would you complain over the fact that you can't make custom dragon shouts? Maybe one that brings up a magical spellmaking table? :biggrin:

No, it was not a ball. It was an elongated lightning bolt. Not to mention all of the other spells that were not in "ball" form. Did you even play Oblivion?

I dont care about custom Dragon Shouts. Most of my characters are not even going to use them, much less go through the main quest. What type of spells will I make? Curses for my Witch Doctor, Sacrifice spells for my Necromancer, Interrogation sells for my Inquisitor. A little Maomer Serpent magic if I make a Maomer again, etc.

Dammit, I DPed.

1) "Just don't use it" is not an excuse for poor design. What's the point of having a feature if the only way to keep the game challenging is to not make use of it?

2) You never made new spells, you just combined spell effects of different magnitudes. Your custom Jump spell from Morrowind was still just a Jump spell. Even combination spells could have all effects cast separately and it would have had the exact same effect.

3) What depth? It was a shallow system. You didn't combine spell effects to create new ones, the way you can meld things on the fly in Magicka. You were just lumping spell effects together. That's hardly deep.

A modder, eh? That makes your entire argument null and void. Sorry. :biggrin:

I play Vanilla ES on console.

None of those things ever existed in TES.

No. You're simply wrong. I can only presume that the only on-target spells you ever used were direct on-target, without an area-of-effect, but even those were somewhat different. Area of effect spells were radically different.

Fire is the only one that travels as a ball and "explodes." Fire explodes on contact and radiates out to the area of effect, in a sphere. Lightning travels as a bolt, hits any target within the area of effect, then jumps from one target to the next, so long as the next target is also within range. And frost travels as a cylindrical cloud, the size of the area of effect, hitting everything within that cylinder from the point it's cast all the way out to where the game stops rendering it.

Hence the reason I had to make them :facepalm: Not my fault you guys apparantly dont have an imagination.



1. yes, have some self control. Your the one that kept stacking weakness, or fortify spells.

2. Yes, they did make new spells, not to mention using your imagination to make novel sells.

3. Again, yes.

I guess you just never used it. there nothing wrong with that, but its no excuse against the people that did.

Seriously, I dont get it. If you dont like it, which you apparently dont, then dont use it. Its totally optional.

Ok...I know that I'm attacking one of your favourite features in TES games but, geez man, you don't need to react so strongly.

I acknowledged the bright site of spellmaking in Oblivion (good for tweaking spells, good for creating new ones) and also its downside (exploitable game mechanic). You should do the same if we want to keep a healthy discussion on spellmaking. Else, it ends up with me trying to be conciliatory but you denying any statement that doesn't support spellmaking 100%.

Well, nothing else man.
Have a good day.

Did you? The shader looked different but the actual effect (elemental damage with an AoE on impact) was exactly the same.



This is blatantly wrong. In no game did you send forth a cylinder of frost. It was a particle effect that traveled the exact same way as fire and shock, and when it hit the target it "exploded" in the exact same way: AoE on point of impact, elemental damage. If the enemy had no weaknesses then each one was functionally identical.

I don't think spellmaking added depth in Oblivion, considering that one of the most popular Oblivion mods is Midas Magic.

Just giving my opinion, not attacking. Sorry if it came of that way. Im just tired of people using the "I didnt use it, so we must not need it excuse". Or the "I have no imagination and couldn't think of anything novel to do with it" stance.

Go try it in Oblivion, right now. I'll wait.

Again, I DON'T think spellmaking added depth in Oblivion, considering that one of the most popular Oblivion mods is Midas Magic. So.....

Okay, here's the thing: having a game feature that is so ridiculously overpowered that it breaks the game is poor design. Your solution is "don't use it," which makes it exactly the same as if the feature wasn't there at all. If the shotgun is a game-breaker in an FPS, "just don't use it" doesn't mitigate the fact that I want to use a [censored] shotgun that doesn't remove all the challenge from the game. Now, on to your other point that you present no evidence for: using your imagination. Kindly give me an example of one of the spells that burst forth from your imagination. Your argument hinges on this point, and you've provided nothing to back up your claims that spellmaking brought considerable depth to the game, rather than being largely useless as I found it to be in each game.

As I've said it just looked different, but functioned the same way.

As far as I know you could cast an AoE lightning spell on the ground and from there it would jump to the next enemy.

Also, these are only true for destruction spells (even there the elemental ones), everything else was a single projectile that may or may not explode.

Again, no. If you kept exploiting weakness and fortify stacks, then thats you bad. I never did. That's really the only thing that could make spell making "OPed". You could still make spells without you personally exploiting stacks. Plus I gave three examples previously of my imaginative spell.


No, thats how you make a trap spell in Oblivion,just add time to it.