I don't need to because I've played the damn game to death, with and without mods. You're dead wrong. The fact that it looks different does not change the fact that it acts in the same way gameplay-wise. When you cast an on-target spell in Oblivion, no matter the effect, it spawns an entity that travels to where you are aiming and applies the magical effect upon whatever it hits. Making it an AoE spell simply applies the spell effect in a radius of X feet from the point of impact, X being the magnitude of the area effect you specified. Did you ever watch NPCs cast Frost on-target effects in Oblivion? It throws a cloud that is visually bigger than the actual spell that hits things. Not a cylinder.

Maybe Bethesda is removing the exploitable aspects of spellmaking. Doesn't really matter to me, though.

"Frost damage has a Fog projectile, as opposed to a Bolt like Shock Damage or a Ball like Fire Damage; Unlike the other two elemental damage effects, the Area of a Frost Damage spell dictates the size of the actual projectile, not simply the size of the explosion upon impact, and all targets caught inside the projectile's flight path will be affected by the Frost Damage. The projectile fog also lingers for a short time after impact, damaging anything that passes through it. This makes Frost Damage the most effective way to damage as many foes as possible with one cast."
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Frost_Damage

I have no idea what game you've played, but I've played Oblivion myself and have cast all the elemental spells in area-of-effect form. Fire travels as a ball and explodes on contact, out to the area of effect, in a sphere. Shock travels in a bolt until it passes within range of a target, then it jumps to that target, then to any other target within range. And frost travels as a cylinder the size of the area of effect and hits anything within that cylinder, regardless of distance from the caster.

Seriously - go play the game. I'm not making that up. I've done it and watched it happen. We discussed it on the Oblivion board years ago and experimented with it, discovering, for instance, that if a spell combines effects and has one of the elemental effects as the most magicka intensive, then the game uses that animation, making it possible to cast other effects in the same manner - jumping from target to target if the dominant effect is shock or hitting multiple targets regardless of distance if it's the frost effect or what-have-you.

I'm not kidding - I'm not making it up - I'm not wrong. Just go try it and you'll see.




:D Thanks. I should've thought to just go to UESP.....

It's like arguing with a rock. Seriously. Spellmaking being overpowered is a problem. Just don't use it does not change the fact that it was broken as [censored]. It simply was. The fact that you didn't abuse it does not change the fact that it is very easy to abuse. And you're assuming I DID make overpowered spells, which I never did. I rarely made use of it in fact, as I preferred to just use direct damage spells with my spellswords. It fit my play style. And no, you've not listed a single damn spell in this entire thread. I see you proclaiming your fantastic imagination in every thread like this without ever telling us just how you used your imagination. Adding self-weakening effects to your enchanted items is not really imaginative. It's just an inefficient use of resources.

And when you cast an on-target spell with a long duration, if it doesn't hit the enemy when you cast it then it's wasted. It does not create a lingering effect that strikes anyone who walks through it.

Again, for the thousandth time, dont stack them then. to stack you have to make multiples of the same spell, just with small variations. Can you just not do this, while still making spells? Yes. So If you dont like spell creation, which you apparently dont, then DO NOT USE IT. You not using it, is the same as if it was not in your game. Unless you actually care how others play their single-player game? and to your last sentence, that is not spell making, thats balancing a character with bound "cursed items" for balancing issues. Which is not only imaginative, but a very efficient use of resources. And to your edit: Yes, you can make trap spells in Oblivion.

Frost Damage 10 pts in 10 ft for 20 secs on Target. Cast that on a random area. Thats a trap spell.

You know what? I just did. And you're wrong. I made a low-damage frost spell with a radius of 20 on target, and hurled it at a passerby. I was aiming just a few feet to her left. And I missed. With a spell that has a radius of 20. Throw a fireball or lightning bolt and it's the same damn thing. They look different. That's it. They function the same. You're wrong. Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong. Why don't you go back and play it again? You'd see how wrong you are.

"Frost bolts dissipate after traveling through the air for a few seconds. The farther the bolt goes, the less damage it does upon contact. This makes killing with frost spells difficult from a distance greater than 80 to 100 feet. This is also true for custom spells combining multiple effects if frost is the dominant effect. The entire projectile may vanish completely far sooner than any other would."

I notice you continue to dodge the issue and shove your head in the sand when I tell you that being able to abuse it a hallmark of poor design and very poor balance. It doesn't matter that YOU did not abuse it. Other people could. And did. I didn't. I used direct-damage spells that just did an intermediary amount of damage in between the ones offered by NPCs. Still doesn't change the fact that if I wanted to I could make a Drain Health 100 pts for 1 second fairly early on and use it to kill low-level enemies in one shot. That's a flaw. A serious one at that. Not exploiting that flaw is not the same as that flaw not existing. And again, what spells did you make?

And again NO. You cannot. Go back into the game. Create a spell that does some amount of damage in some area of effect on target for 20 seconds. Cast the spell at the ground in front of you and walk into the area you just struck and watch nothing happen.

EDIT: Apparenlty either my testing was flawed or UESP is wrong. Or the size of the projectile does not directly correspond to the area effect. It was definitely less than 20 feet that I missed the NPC by.

Why do I care what others did in their single-player game? I didnt. And Im not sure why you do?

And I guess thats why the UESP even states thats how you can make a trap spell.

I have no idea what to say to you. I just tried it in the game and it worked exactly as I said. I can only presume that your game is modded in such a way that it doesn't work that way. I cast 20' AOE frost a good five feet to the left of a mage in the courtyard of the AU and it not only hit him, but hit the apprentices, who were a good 100 feet away. It never even looked vaguely like a ball - it was a cloud from the moment it left my characters hand.

Now I will say though that I was wrong on one aspect of shock - it has to actually hit the first target before it will jump to the next one.

I admit that I was wrong on that point. However: not much of one, and only with frost. No fire or lightning "traps."

And it's not about me caring what others do in their single-player game. If you don't see the point of good balance in a single-player game then frankly you're not worth arguing with.



My area of effect wasn't big enough for testing. I was incorrect and I concede the point. You are, however, wrong about shock effects arcing between targets.

EDIT: No, if it hits one guy and there's no area effect then that's it. Go try it. I just did. Three NPCs clustered together as close as collision detection allows. Single-target lightning bolt. No jumping.

Like I said before, it takes less control and way less effort to turn the difficulty slider to 1 than it does to exploit spell creation. Want to balance it? Dont have stacking. Then its fine and goes back to 'Dont like it, dont use it'. I thought Sneak in OB was a bit "OPed". Do I want sneak out? No.

Ice is the only spell that lingered. Lightning, while it looked like a chain lighting effect, still worked the same way as any other AoE spell.

And that is the main point. Everything else is balls and explosions. The three elemental spells are the only exceptions.

Stick your fingers in your ears and the irritating sound isn't there, is what you're saying. So [censored] it. This is a waste of my time.

No, becasue the irritating sound is of your doing. Dont want to hear it? Dont make the sound. Not to mention I said that you can balance it by removing stacking and perhaps even implementing stricter Magicka consumption.

No, you just dont know how to use anologies. Plus I guess you just like to ignore the fact that I presented a way to have your "balance", for those that have no self control.

No I dont think so, the ice damage is the slow part of it. Fire is now the only spell type which causes physical damage I believe. They have used the other elemental spells to replace the drain attributes which no longer exist. It's all streamlined and better for it, As fire, frost and lightening all did the same thing before which was unnecessary.

Agreed. Fire should damage, frost should slow, and lightning should paralyze.

anologies, eh? What you're saying:

The glass is only fragile if you break it.
The gas leak is only dangerous if you light a match.
The brakes being cut isn't a problem if you don't drive.
The cake being dry and bland isn't a problem if you only eat the frosting.
It's not broken, just glue it together.

Spellmaking was broken. All the assurances in the world that I can "fix" that by ignoring a large part of its functionality will not change that. It was broken. That is a problem. So sure, they could just make it not broken. But wait, one of the reasons you want to make custom spells is that the stock spells are bad. Well how about this? What if the stock spells are good. There's one reason to not have spellmaking. How about things scaling? Well, if damage automatically scales with your skill then that's not an issue. And we come to the fabled imagination argument once again.

Tell me what damn spells you made. You want me to take your imagination/creativity angle seriously? Cough up some evidence, even anecdotal evidence.

Exploits and game being unbalance in not good. Bethesda and other company's are generally striving to make a balanced game. Where all skills are useful,etc. Where you don't have avoid doing certain things(like jumping on a rock because you become a god). Some people are not happy about Daggers getting a big sneak damage bonus and think all weapons should, but daggers always svcked compared to other weapons in past games, this makes them more useful. I think a rebalacning of spell effects is also needed.

Why do I always need to let people borrow my imagination? OK

Transmogrify= Invisibility+Summon X

Maomer Serpent Magic= Water walk on touch+fortify speed on touch+invisabilty on touch+any aesthetic effect you want. Cast this on a horse.

Interrogation magic (one form)= Heart Attack spell(which is its own custom spell) coupled with a healing spell.

Curse spells= Dispel+any various weakness, debuffs etc.

Necro Sacrifices= Any damage(s) on target+ a correlated on counter response negative effect on self.

Just a few examples.

Daggers having huge sneak attack bonuses makes sense, is in line with traditional RPG tropes, and actually gives you a reason to use daggers. Daggers are very maneuverable and it's far easier to stick one into the weak spots of an unsuspecting target than it is to swing a warhammer, which is heavier, slower, and requires much more room and muscle action to use. Representing the advantages of one weapon over another is good design, as it makes for more variety and can improve balance.

And Xarnac, I guess if you consider that "imagination" then who am I to argue, even if I can point out that your "Interrogation" spell doesn't actually interrogate anybody. Hell, it doesn't accomplish much of anything considering that it heals the damage it does.

I always liked Ghost Walk, fortify speed , fortify athletics, chameleon, just for a few seconds, together.

No, you heal the damage before they die. And if you cant see how thats using imagination and RPing, then I dont think you know what imagination is/means?