Hi,

In both Morrowind and Oblivion, it pretty much was not viable to play a pure Mage. The problems were very widely acknowledged by the player community, and there were lots of mods created to make pure mages at least viable (although some, like Mighty Magick, went overboard). I played Skyrim at PAX in Seattle a couple of weeks ago, and it still seemed that Magic was a bit on the weak side -- although, it was hard to tell based on 15 minutes of gameplay.

Morrowind had extremely powerful enchanting; but outside of that, both it and Oblivion suffered from the following:

1. The size of the magicka pool was insufficient to cast enough spells to make it through combat.

A melee charater's fatigue was both large enough and it regenerated fast enough to easily handle any combat situation. Melee rarely had to consume restore fatigue potions. For mages, the size of the magicka pool was tiny. Morrowind didn't have combat regen of magicka, and Oblivion's regen rate was too slow.

2. At starting skill levels, the problems for mages were far worse. It wasn't until spell skills were in the 90s or at 100 that magicka cost was within a range that could be considered to be close to viable. At starting skill levels damage per magicka was over 5 times what it was at skill level 100, making it literally impossible to play a pure mage -- you were forced to use melee skills, and they would make up the bulk of the damage that you did.

3. The durations of buffs were extremely short-lived, resulting in the need to have to extremely frequently re-buff.

4. Because of both the short duration of buffs and the heavy magicka costs, it wasn't practical to use spells for survivability -- most players wound up wearing armor.

5. Melee characters had to focus on only a few skills to be great: block, heavy armor, and a weapon skill. Mages had to focus on many more skills, and even then wound up being sub-par to melee types.

6. Because of the skill glut that Mages faced, plus the fact that you would run out of magicka quickly, it was hard to get spell skills up to decent levels in the 'level race'. This resulted in the correct levelling strategy being not levelling, until spell skill levels had reached decent levels.

For both Morrowind and Oblivion, melee characters wound up being both more survivable and more damaging than Mages: superior in all ways.

I'm really looking forward to Skyrim -- I've played all of TES since Arena -- and I have my Skyrim CE already pre-ordered. I really hope that Bethesda has finally made Mages fun to play in Skyrim without the need for mods.

All and all, I'd make the assessment that Mages have been gimped.

No Spellmaking [can't combine "weakness to" to another spell effect and such.
Many spells need to be quipped to remain in effect.
Many spells seem like you are likely better off using potion/scroll versions.

Hum.. it was possible even back in morrowind. My most powerful character was a pure mage. Oblivion it was the most OP character you could build. Run and shoot is tedious... but stupidly easy.

Actually I'd say mages will get a big boost from Skyrim. Most of the reviews from people who had a while to play the game said that magic actually felt like the best, most satisfying, and most practical means of combat. I think Bethesda is really going to help us out a lot with magic in this one. Not to mention, we get dragon shouts, which, though not being entirely the same as magic, will be pretty awesome and powerful.

my Nord hates all Magic doo'ers

Mages were over powered in both Oblivion and Morrowind???

I had a pure mage character. But I was an Altmer with maxed Intelligence, and all armor/jewelry slots enchanted with Fortify Magicka 50 points.

That was fun.

You've "normal" magic and Dragonshouts. I'd say it's pretty difficult NOT to make a good Pure Mage in Skyrim.

It depends all on how you played them.


The people who used & abused spell-making to produce multiply-stacking weakness debuffs followed by fireballs for 48 bazillion damage.... they think mages were overpowered.

The people who used the basic spells sold by the Mage Guild, and tried to kill stuff by just whacking them with attack spells... they think mages were weak.


And honestly? The fact that the Oblivion system was that broken is as good an argument as any for the nigh-total revamp they've done for Skyrim (along with the removal of spell creation).

Making a decent, balanced, well-rounded default system with no custom spells is a much better situation than a crappy system that can only be salvaged by min-maxing custom spells.

It was unnecessary for melee types to resort to 'raptor tactics' -- you could just run in and smash, and survive almost anything. Because of the need for mages to resort to raptor tactics, this meant that time to clear a spawn was many times what it would take for a melee type.

This is the very definition of gimped.

Haha, no. Not at all.

I always play Morrowind as a pure mage, and I'd have to say the ONLY spell you need to do well is an Absorb Health spell. I have about 8 different varieties of absorb health that I custom made for different situations, and I can wipe the floor with any opponent in just a few seconds with those spells.

I agree.,it was possible in both games,and i'd say more so in oblivion. You had allsorts of options. I don't think people think hard enough sometimes.

Magic was very viable in Morrowind and Oblivion as far as I know; at least that's how it was for my gameplay.
However, magic was very boring in Morrowind in Oblivion, something that seems to have changed now...

I think they sound more fun with the new spell affects. In Oblivion and Morrowind it was pretty boring for me to play as a pure mage because all of the effects were just similiar looking balls of energy. (Not saying it was boring period, just boring for me btw. )

I Totally agree with u i always play as a mage and it dosent feel right when i have to use a sword to protect myself in battle when im suppose to be using magic but i never have enough magicka but now everyone has said that magic feel's way better than in oblivion so i cant wait to try it out and from what we've seen in the demo's it looks like it's all true

http://www.zgeek.com/forum/gallery/files/1/1/3/0/5/nowai_owl.jpg In Oblivion, I was the beastliest mage out there. I didn't even own a sword, right when I got my tower, I made a spell that killed pretty much anything, and took almost 0 magicka... I thought mages were like super overpowered.

I think it really is a case of you played them, not just once, but multiple times. Playing a Non-Altmer or Non-Breton could pose problems in OB because having boosts to the magicka pool, or better skill increases in the magic schools was one of the few ways to extend your arsenal. End-game, I was enchanting hats, shoes, pants, shirts, rings and necklaces with as much Fortify Magicka to cast not only my stronger spells, but to keep up with any times I might have missed, or when I needed to throw in some heals, or whatever.

I think it could be fun playing an Imperial Illusionist, or an Orc Flame-Caster but I couldn't, unless I wanted to hot-key magicka potions and chug them to cast that next fireball.

But, from what I've seen in the videos, they've re-done the spell-damage. It looks more... realistic? I think thats the word. I mean, it seems like the game recognizes the fact you're spewing flames at your enemy, so it acts accordingly. Personally, I feel like if you hit someone with magic, it shouldn't be so mathematical, and be more realistic and reactionary. I'm casting flames, you should be burned... or a bolt of lightning, you should be jolted, and spasming... etc.

its not that mages are over powered its that u just made them overpowerd using a mage that only had spells that u bought from other is much hardier

Poppycock! I found it easier to play a pure mage in Oblivion than a pure melee character. :rofl:

Do you mean "pure" as in only using skills from the Magic attribute, or a mage that can also borrow from a different attribute class, such as Stealth for alchemy?

It is a good idea to establish exactly what is meant when speaking of "pure" classes, especially magic ones.

Remember there are a variety, like wizards and sorcerers, etc.

Even in versions of AD&D, mages could use a dagger, etc. and use of armor was penalized.

I suppose, that in Skyrim, one could play "pure" mage only using skills from the Magic attribute.

I think it could be done, but one would have to be thoughtful when using skills and applying associated perks.

(This might be easier with Alchemy...but does that use detract from the "pureness"?)

However, my first character, a v?lva-type shaman-in-training, will be be using skills from all three attribute types, Marksman, from Combat, One handed and Alchemy, from Stealth, and
various subdivisions of the Magic attribuite. My character will use Alchemy as the "governing" skill, with all other skills being in support.

Again, choice has consequence, so think carefully when developing skills and using perks.

Conclusion - Yes, I think it can be done, but for some, it may require some effort. However, some will like that requirement.

Oblivion's magic system felt like it's just about stats of spells. You're either too weak or overpowered, and the spells are used in limited occasions. Outside of combat magic isn't really useful.

i did a pure mage in oblivion. high elf with mage birthsign. i mainly used conjurations. it was very possible and pretty enjoyable

I will make playing a pure mage possible. And from what it seems, magic is going to be [censored] awesome!

This is how I feel about it.When I played Oblivion, I felt like mages were really under-powered.Until I found the spell-making altar, and then I felt it was really over-powered.

Oblivion:
Summon Daedroth = win 80% of combat situations
Summon Storm Atronach = win 95% of combat situations
Do either of these and also throw in destruction spells while sitting back = 100% success rate

My pure mages were never very good in Morrowind, but if I took the time, I could totally see them being super powerful. Throw in levitation and mark/recall and you're set.