We get it Archmage, you don't like Enchanting.

I like enchanting, but it shouldn't be mistaken for crafting. Spell making was the only true crafting mages had, and now it's gone.

You did the same thing though, you took effects you had to have previously known (like enchanting) and applied to them to something that already existed (in this case a casting type).

Okey, I'll do a long shot, ofcourse mages have crafting options, they can use smithing! Nothing stops you from just being a mage.
(I know its silly but true, mages can craft weapons even if they have no use for them)

In the way you talk about crafting weapons/spells, no, mages can't create spells. That's the end of it. Ofcourse if there where a good spellmaking system it would be better. I don't think anyone denies that. Our weivpoint is more like:
"Spellmaking is out, but all other great things they added to magic is great and makes up for no spell making"

Others simply don't think all new things make up for spellmaking.


We're basicly arguing about the defenition of crafting at this moment, but wether enchanting is crafting or not, Magic have Enchanting, Stealth have Alchemy, Combat have Smithing. All might not be the exact equal to the other but they all have atleast one skill atributed to their archtype that is non combat related and improves the items you have.



Yes we have heard that but in that case spellmaking has been the only available crafting up until now in Skyrim when Smithing got added.

Because if it was the only crafting mages had, then you obviously dont count alchemy as it been in all previous games, mainly directed towards mages. Even in this game its more of a half mage half stealth skill from what i recall Todd saying in the first podcast.

It will be more magical than both of them combined with the addition of the Dragon shouts and their new magic tree. I am personnaly glad they removed Spell making. It makes room for better gaming evoultion,if you want the past play the past games then.

How ?

Ladies and Gentlemen, I'm calling it now: There is no such thing as crafting. We are incapable of "making" anything. All we are able to do is take existing subatomic particles and rearrange them into different shapes.

Bethesda just lost a sale.

Is this your attempt to be funny? If you need to read a [censored] dictionary to learn what enchanting and crafting is then go that, don't come it here trying to be a d00sh for no reason

Taking a normal item, and enchanting it, thus making a magical item, is absolutely as much crafting as taking previously existing spell effects, altering some variables, and putting some of them together to make a 'new' spell. Doesn't really need saying, but sometimes you just have to challenge a contentious and ridiculous statement.

Absolutely NOT. You're not actually crafting anything when you enchant something, you're only adding properties to something that was already crafted/smithed.

Mage elitsits...yay :rolleyes:
The system becomes more unique in look and feel, and retains balance by eliminating the extermely borken spellmaking. Mages are now actually comparable to the other archtypes. God-Spells are out and this is a good thing.

So just like with spell crafting your adding pre-existing spell effects to cast types that were already there. So spell crafting isn't actually crafting by that logic.

This.

And by that logic, mixing spell effects and altering the damage or duration is not crafting either. By your own arguments, you are saying if spellmaking was in, mages would still not have a crafting option, as nothing has been created, simply altered.

They are raw base effects. A sword on the other hand is NOT raw materials, it has been smithed/crafted, there is no more crafting to had. So, no. Spell crafting IS actually crafting "by my logic." enchanting is not

ArchMage go and take a effin chill pill,stop getting on to people about everything that they post. Everyone knows that there is a difference in Crafting and enchanting and that you are upset over a Spell Making being removed its only a game and Magic is far from dead in it.

Raw base effects, which are applied to something that already exists and cannot be changed, in spell craftings case a cast type, in enchantings case an item. Sorry if you think there is some massive difference between the two but they work in exactly the same way.

Then your logic is deeply flawed, seeing as the same thing makes sense to you when it supports your argument, but apparently isn't
so when it contradicts your argument. Enchanting, according to you, creates nothing. Well then, neither does spellmaking. Apply the same criteria to both, either they are both crafting, or neither are.

As always, I will say what I always say when threads like these pop up, catalysts of complaining.
Firstly, wait until you play before you bash it. Very, very important.
Second, in the words of TotalBiscuit;

It's ok, to not like things,
it's ok, but don't be a dike about it,
it's ok, to not like thiiiiings,
but don't be a dike about the things you don't like.

Crafting is the present progressive form of the verb craft, as in "I am crafting this right now."
Craft (as a verb) is defined thusly

–verb (used with object)
9. to make or manufacture (an object, objects, product, etc.) with skill and careful attention to detail.

Enchanting is a skill, therefore it is crafting or something like that. :shrug:

Because of how much spells have changed, it's not reasonable to expect spell making to be included. It's reasonable to be disappointed but you can see why it won't be in and that there are good reasons- even if you disagree overall.

Different spells now can be manipulated in action - charging and releasing for more powerful results, setting traps, channeling to keep the effect going with your magicka, etc. How do they combine those when so many spells would function differently, doing different things depending on how you held and released the keys? How do they balance all those combinations? I don't think we can expect them to be able to considering even with the more simplistic spells of Oblivion and Morrowind spell making still caused major issues. Some may say "balance isn't important in a single player game" but it is to a considerable number of people including myself.

I loved how magic worked in Morrowind! :biggrin:

I don't think it will be like that again in Skyrim though.

While I am not the least bit impressed with Beth's hardline press to limit freedom and choices in the game, there are some aspects to the new spell system that look promising....

So, you have fireball X. It is X magnitude. X area effect. On target.

The old spellmaking system, this was it. That is the spell, you can do nothing with it. Which is completely ridiculous as any mage would be able to manipulate the effects however they want on the fly.It looks to be the new system will address this. Hopefully, we will be able to manipulate magnitude, duration, area effect, etc. right there so you are not forced to go drop coins in the McSpellmaking Altar just to change minor details of a single-effect spell your character already knows.

So, instead of a dozen fireball spells, you have one. Which you can manipulate to your heart's content and the only limits are your magicka reserves, your skill level, and perks choices (I'd love to add in int. or wp but such basic things that define character don't exist anymore! Thanks Beth, awesome.... :down: ).

If this is what they made....that would be awesome.

But, it in no way changes the major loss of spellmaking. For the bots that are repeating the "spreadsheety" comment.....that sad punchline has been overused. Time to "streamline" it to the dustbin.

It is perfectly reasonable to expect a part of the game world to still exist.

Someone really needs to point something out to the devs:

Adding to and expanding game play is great. Refining past problems is great. Adding in pointless and flashy gimmicks is fine. But doing any of this by limiting freedom and choices for the character is really freaking stupid. All you are doing is turning people off.



It seems to me to be very simple. Unfortunately, it requires the use of spreadsheets. An evil, obscure, and arcane art that the staff at Bethesda have successfully burned from their retinue.