Just beautiful. Thanks for helping me relocate this quote. I think it fits this Skyrim problem properly. Personally, I'm never a mage character, as I hate magic. But this does sadden me for all my fellow TES fans who won't be able to fully enjoy the game like the rest of us. Who knows, maybe one day they'll decide that combat is too "repetative".

More magical than both previous games IMHO, from what magic we've seen so far.
As for whether it's more/less restricted, depends on how you look at it. You can't make spells, but you can change the way they function on the fly in real time.

I wonder how people would feel if Beth decided to take out the option to fully customize your enchantments. No more tweaking or creation, only a restricted amount of effects you can apply.

Or what about Alchemy? You will only be able to create potions through a resctricted amount of recipes without tweaking.

Most of you are blinded by your own self righteous convictions about magic.

I think it reflects video gaming in general, back in Arena/Daggerfall, graphics and real time combat wasn't good enough to stand up without the more D&D attributes, but now the games are evolving (I for one prefer D&D spreadsheets, but I know I'm in the minority)

With the removal of spellmaking my wizard has been demoted to an apprentice.
The inability to create my own spells means that what made magic magical, wonderful, interesting and varied is gone.
There is mathematically no way the new system is as complex, for the exact same reason that two times three is less than two times three times three.

All we are left with is generic pre-made, linear, boxed-in spells that are in essence no different from any other game's psi powers or plasmids.

The magic has been removed from TES.

Enchanting is not a form of crafting, it's a form of enchanting.


And by your logic here armor and weapon smithing should also be removed from the game, with weapons and armor only available by loot or purchase or perks like the spell system is now.

I seriously doubt Bethesda is "Comming for the mages". You do realise they don't have an evil scheeme to ruin the game for everyone, that would be like shooting themself in the foot. Everyone complaining seem to be very quick to say they are removing features, while not mentioning the things they add. The new features in the magic system have actually made me want to play with magic more then I would have othervise.

While adding new features and experimenting is what made this series great in the first place, I don't see why they have to remove any features. It's not like (from what we've seen) that the new system is so completly incompatible with spell making it would break the game to have both (same goes for attributes/perks)

Meh... the first thing I'm going to do is play a mage for a bit, and then mod in more spells if I feel it's necessary / possible. ^^

I hope they give the Creation Kit the ability to create new GUIs. If they do, I'm sure someone will write their own spellmaking mod. If not, it'll just be a matter of time before someone hacks in the ability to do so.

Enchanting is crafting magic items from non-magic items so it is crafting.

I don't like the fact they removed spellmaking but all the crying in this thread is a complete overreaction. Yes they took out some customisation, I agree with that, but with the new spell system I think actual combat will be far more tactical. Even though there was customisation in spells in previous titles, they never did more than increase numbers and that wasn't very interesting. And yes, I have played mages 200+ hours and did use spellmaking myself, especially in Morrowind. But in Skyrim there seem to be more tactical spells and different ways to use each of those, which should lead to more interesting combat.

I'll reserve my final judgement for when the game is out, but from what I've seen so far I think magic will have less customisation (as in making and naming spells yourself) but will bring far more tactical options to combat than before.

I guarantee you combat will be(tacticly) exactly the same as before.

Some men are able to "mount" a horse, some are not! :shocking:

Seriously though peoples, I think everyone needs to take a chill pill and cool down. :icecream:

It is undeniable that many people are very upset that spell making is out (me included).

{Dismounts from high horse}

It came as a sudden change. Surely the previous spell creation system was not as fun as I wished it to be but it could be improved. This new magic system you praise is certainly a welcome addition but for many it came with great cost.

A new improved spell creation system + New magic system = Pure win

No it doesn't, using those sentiments to describe some one dropping there toys out the sand box is enraging... What bull crap this all is. Kneejerk reactions aren't gunna bring back the spell making and there certainly not going to win any favours with the devs who I'm sure wrk hard and care very much about tes.

they seem to care about money more.

I understand why people are upset about spell crafting being removed, and I can only offer my personal opinion, but I welcome the fact that instead of being able to craft a mixed damage frost, fire and shock spell, I now have to choose which element is right for each situation, not merely against enemy weaknesses and resistances, but with the new secondary effects.

I was initially shocked when the removal was confirmed too, but having thought about it at length, my conclusion is I would rather the necessity of thinking on my feet, in the heat of combat, as opposed to doing my thinking in the safety of the university. Rather than making each destruction spell a mixd DoT on touch, and thus maximising efficiency of magicka use, now I will have to work out if my character can afford to cast each and every spell.

As I say, works for me, but I definitely see the trade off doesn't appeal to others.

While magic has been simplified since Oblivion, fighting with it has been improved tenfold. The ability to dual wield can lead to some awesome magic duels. Plus, the spells all look unique.

Enchanting involves imbuing existing items with magic, that is not crafting, it's enchanting. More simply: Enchanting =/= Crafting. Echanting = Enchanting. Mages now have no crafting system, where as every other play style does. There's no good excuse you or anyone else can give for the absence of spell making.

two points to make, which of course will both be over looked.

1/ Spread sheets don't make RPG's, thank God i never played PnP RPG's with most of you guys if you truely believe they do, it just all sounds very boring. The spread sheet way of 'creating' spells was a sandbox mechanic, not an open world mechanic, there is a difference and i wish people would acknowledge that.

2/ I wonder what the reaction would have been if the spell development was the other way around. If the previous ES games had the new on the fly method, but Skyrim had a new, you must create your own spells. I bet it would go along the lines of "So now if we want to cast a fireball and then cast a fire trap we have to create two different spells, how silly is that? And we have to specify how long we want spells to last, What if I wanted the spell to last 4 seconds on one cast and then 6 on the next? Talk about dumbing down and limiting our choice, ZOMG"

What is the theif crafting system?

Alchemy.

That would hold up if warriors could invent their own combat moves. Enchanting is just as much an excercise in crafting as smithing and alchemy.

1: So you are saying pen and paper RPGs which invented the genre are not essential to the genre? and even now that spell making is removed the spread sheet system is still working behind the scenes

2: Well Yeah, whenever a game series changes components that have been in since the start people get pissed off. TES was complex and when it got simplified (not my choice of words) people got angry, if COD suddenly became a D&D style shooter then their fans would be irritated as well

In the same way spellmaking is not a form of crafting it's a form of spellmaking. :whistling:

I didn't intend for it to be if they remove eapon they have to remove spells for fairness sake. Ment it more that he said, what if they removed weapon? It's kinda on a different level then removing spell making more equal to removing spells. I agree Smithing would be more close to spellmaking in that sense... But I'd be fine if smithing wheren't in, obviously I want it in but it havent been any Smithing so far in the games. That didn't stop me from enjoying them. Reason I like smithing isn't because it makes armor or weapon better it's purely for astethic reasons. I like spellmaking for astethic reasons aswell, being able to name my spell to nicer names and adding possibly a light effect to my frostball spell.

Obviously I'm not overjoyed spellmaking was removed, it's not that huge of a deal for me tho because in my oppinion magic looks like it is going to be lot better compared to Oblivion.

And for you constantly saying Magic have been removed from the game, last i checked you can still cast a fireball by using magic. Unless Beth started to come up with an natural explaination to it like you have hidden gas tubes pumping out ignitable gas and a lighter in your hand to put it on fire while you are using your flamethrower im prestty sure it still classifies as magic.

Personally I feel the new magic system just makes you be creative on the fly, rather than creating spells for every occasion. Like if I see a lone mage I might use a protection spell in one hand and lightning in the other to drain his magicka, or if I see a group of mages I might use a silence drain spell and stick close to them to stop them using magic and use flames in the other hand to keep them all ignited.

Or for a group of warriors I might use a dual frost rune and aggro them with a fireball and set them all alight, the rune would then slow them and I'd use flames to create a line of fire in front of me then move back a bit so that they will be lit on fire again when they run through but Iv'e switched to ice spikes at this point and am picking them off. Or if I get swamped by a group of melee attackers I might use frost self-area in one hand and demoralize self-area in the other, causing an explosion around me which makes them all run but also slowed down, then switch to flames and spin in a circle igniting them all to boot.

Considering how easy the favourite system makes switching spells I'll definitely be exploring some useful combos but then also enjoy the fact that I can switch it up on the fly rather than be stuck with static spells that work the same way every time.