@tedbell: Only an OBSE mod would be able to bring such an idea to reality.

So it seems that LAME or SM both are compatible with OOO. Can I use one of them (LAME or SM) to over-ride OOO, but not unbalance the game? What I like is OOO, but I want to increase my summon cap, and I also like some of the things that LAME / SM bring to the table.

Will LAME / SM unbalance my OOO experience?

I don't think so.

EDIT: I meant to say. In my opinion: no

It's nice to see my magic boost plugin was listed there!

HD's spell plugin is meant to run alongside the weapons plugin to even the odds.

Have only checked out LAME briefly, but as for SM I'd say yes - it will unbalance the game, at least on default settings. Multiple summons in itself is an example of this; summoning, let's say, three Clannfears will of course make a summoner three times as powerful (more if you include the increased duration). Not many enemies can withstand it.

... but in OOO you can still easily reach 100% Chameleon and turn god like, which is prevented in both Supreme Magicka and LAME . Each overhaul (and Vanilla) can be "exploited". Badly. I think "exploits" aside neither OOO / Supreme Magicka / LAME do unbalance the game with OOO.

In a way it already is - when you got the next mastery level (e.g. from Apprentice to Journeyman) you can put together a spell with the same summon, but much longer spell duration .

True, but don't forget the feature that limits the number of summons you can have. If you find it unbalancing you can have three summons at once at only apprentice level, change it in the INI. And with npcs it's linked to their conjuration (and a bit of randomness) so only an expert or master in conjuration would summon three or four clannfears all the time.

And about the duration, by default it's a low duration (e.g. below 40-50). Only if you turn on Consistant Summons will it become longer.

So IMHO you can't say SM is unbalancing cause most of the features that increase or possible change the powerlevel of your character (and that of npcs) can be turned down or even off completely. :shrug:

But it's just my opinion on it. You have the right to another one.

-Kyoma

Agreed. And I said on "default settings". But, generally, if you get several summons instead of the vanilla one, which seems to be what the OP is looking for, it's of course a bit unbalancing. And if a magical overhaul generally makes it easier to survive/kill stuff with the help of magic - which they all do - it's also a bit unbalancing almost by definition. Unless you use them with a pure melee char of course.

I'd like to try the special summons-only part of LAME to add to SM. Does anyone have the link?

Also, the extra (master/etc) spells added by LAME seem super cool - can I just do an OMOD install of LAME and load it all before I load SM ?

Best ask in L.A.M.E. thread, but to anwser the question: the SM Conjuration Override.esp is in the L.A.M.E. archieve so just download that and copy it from the optional modules folder.

And yes, you can just load everything from L.A.M.E. before SM. But the best part is, you can pretty much make any combo you want, all depends on what settings you want.

Nice job, bg2408 - I was looking for more info in this area. :goodjob:

Hi! I am using SM (and Midas) and feel that I have to little magicka... What mod should I download to increase it?

Sorry for the threadomancy, but:

No thread necromancy, for that a thread has to die in the first place . Although problem is these are Magicka settings, which aren't usually part of Magic overhauls (except the MMs).

I can think of four possibilities:
1. Supreme Magicka (link in first post) allows to adjust the "Magicka per intelligence" rating in it's ini. If you feel the default 2 is too low, you could raise it to 3 or 4.
2. There's a mod which changes Ayleid wells to give a small permanent Magicka bonus each. Don't remember it's exact name, though. Mod detectives could help .
3. http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=9421 - the higher your magic skills are, the more Magicka you get.
4. Race Balancing Project (link in sig) comes with a radical different Magicka system, which imho works better than the default one.

With all due respect, bg2408, in-famous vs. famous is a matter of opinion. Ironically, Damar would be the last person, who would like to get yet another stone. Why not to make also this comment to be purely comparative. Like some people couldn't play without OOO, I couldn't have fun without MM. Though, now I use the 'reborn' version.

Thanks for the overview.
I have always favored mages and ranged combat but never used a magic overhaul until my current character (#5 uses OOO/SM).
I think a magicka boost is needed when using a mod like OOO that makes the game more difficult.

Ouch. Didn't actually see that setting until now... It was set at 1! So I changed it to 3.

i am just using OOO and now at level 100 for conjuration, i can have three of whatever. the one thing i am trying to figure out though, why when i summon does it bring in two each time, dropping one? so, essentially i summon 6, but only three stick around... :shrug:

Nice, I was looking for a magic mod comparison thread and look at what I find. Now I know which I want to use. Thanks a bunch for this.

Many, many thanks for the positive responses .

I've updated the comparison chart with the current spell settings of LAME and Supreme Magicka - the rest of the mods seem pretty static (OOO) or dead (the rest) to me, so no update there.


What I think needs to be done is a comparison of "unique" features - both active magic overhauls have expanded greatly in that regard. Maybe later.


About my "(in-)famous" word play: See the note above that line. It's even bolded. Requested by the author itself, and a description of the mod, not the modder .

Thanks bg2408, updated stat lists But thinking about listing all the unique features in SM itself scares me :cold: . Its a good plan though which we should look into getting out, especially as i'm sure alot of people are unaware of the little special things in both LAME and SM, but yeah maybe later

This thread is very useful and should not be lost.

Thanks bg2408


:)

This very cool and unique Magic Overhaul Comparison (destined to become an Important Word, from now on MOC) was a fantastic help with making my choice! By the way, iirc it doesn't mention that LAME and SM work together well? I have LAME, then SM, then LAME's Conjuration override plugin.

A question: does anyone use Magic Overlap? http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=14871
It's not exactly an overhaul, but I like its idea very much. Do you think this will be compatible with SM and LAME, both of which I won't give up, not even if 10 Clanfears were jumping at me through the screen right now?

Magic Overlap was made by Flyfightflea, whom I believe to be no longer active. Or is he? The mod prevents spell effects from stacking such as shield, resist, and chamaeleon. Further, it allows to set caps on those effects. It has options to choose between two modes, "overlap" and "strongest counts only":

Overlap: 60% shield + 10% shield => 0.6 + 0.1*(1.0-0.6) = 0.6 + 0.1*0.4 = 0.64 => damage is reduced by 64%.
Strongest counts: 60% shield + 10% shield => damage is reduced by 60%.

Now, the readme isn't very elaborate and the total damage reduction is not (supposed to be) shown in-game, so my example calculation for Overlap might be wrong. In addition, I don't know whether this overlap also includes enchanted items, or spells only.

From the ini file I gather that shield spells overlap with the shield aspect from elemental shield effects (e.g. frost shield); however, I don't know whether these two effects overlap with regular armor rating. I think they do, but I cannot easily check since overlap-resulting definitive damage reduction is not shown in-game. AFAIK, this is the only mod that does something like this, which greatly adds balance to the game. Or isn't it?

Hey, I have recently installed LAME and SM together, and have found that some spells have a magicka cost of as much as 1000, and I was wondering if they were meant to be that high, and also how it is possible to get that much? Thanks!

CC

Hey bg2408, if you are planning an overhaul, i would love to team up with ya and make one. I always wanted to make my own overhaul, but never put all the detaisl together for one.