No don't delete - expand. This and your other threads discussing overhauls and such are valuable and I still refer back to them from time to time.

My wish is for these to be expanded. You do a great job of making your position transparent as to how you classify and subjectively rank the overhauls and mods. I just wish that you would include the stuff you don't agree with even if ... especially if you then expound on why you don't agree the mod is unbalancing or whatever.

on another note ... it seems that I'm always reading about how you are feeling slighted by mod users and reviewers.

as a suggestion - to keep sanity some artists don't read their reviews by critics.

To have one's own voice and to be able to speak it is a reward in and of itself. This is what unfolding of artistic ability is about. Whether it be a mod one created or a painting.

I think Bob Dylan wrote something along these lines:

There are those without talent
who run around galant
making rules for those with talent.

Certainly it is the case that the only way a talented person can accept a rule is when they doubt their own talent.

If an artist needs acceptance, needs praise - then it is not art - it is entertainment, and the artist an entertainer. BUt then this may mean being honest about what one may want from the purveyors of art (the users of mods) and being forthright about asking for it. Assuming that it will come and not putting out what is wanted is itself a little disingenuous and not at all direct.

For instance I don't think ratings/votes on nexus mean much, but Ismelda wanted it, asked for it, and got it. I even voted!

Oblivion modding and mod using is often about making the world just so - each individual is going to be as particular as they can (or want to ) be. There is just no way for all to agree or find the gold in what is presented. This is an impersonal forum and game mod users are just not going to give a thought about the feelings of the mod maker if the mod does not suit their needs. It is not a personal enough forum in life for that kind of interaction. I wouldn't expect it.

So those are just my thoughts on this.

In short - yes, what you do and provide is valuable - but don't take it personally if it is not as appreciated as you appreciate it.

Certainly not. He was wrong, but let's assume, for the same of argument, he wasn't.

This is a singleplayer game, if somebody wanted their character to be realisticly overpowered, that's -fine-.

MM is realisticly overpowered, to me. Certainly, you can defeat almost everything, but it's no cheat, it just rebalances magic. Like a damage increaser, it makes it way easier to kill things, but also easier to be killed.

LAME&SM, however, turn magic into something more than a support role. A spellsword might find it easier, but a pure mage wouldn't, due to not having a (good) melee attack (I love my chillrend, still).
I think one point that guy was avoiding is that yes, you can cast FotM 3 times in a row (At least, the lower level ones), but so can every other mage you meet.
Yes, you can summon 2 skeletons at relatively low level, but so can every mage you meet.

So no, don't delete this useful resource.

Whats gamebreaking to one person is not always gamebreaking to another. Its always up to the user what they consider to be game breaking or not and can depend somewhat on what mods that user is using as well. Its a reason i have built so much choice into SM for the user so people can take the balance they are after into there own hands.

I wouldn't delete the comparison as its a very useful collection of information (and i admit i check up the comparison chart stat list often ) even if a few people have personal vendettas against a comparison list . So my vote bg is keep it alive
I think though looking at past posts it looks like there is a demand for (what i would describe as) magic gameplay/tweak mods listed as well though :shrug: Also i think alot of people are not fully aware of all these smaller mods so it may be useful to list such.

this thread is invaluable to all those that want to use a magic overhaul mod. and, since magic in vanilla The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion is the greatest game in the history of the universe., everyone should use at least one

As do I. Please retain this, and don't be discouraged.



I too have this impression, BG, but please don't take that the wrong way. I have found your way of thinking quite (intriguingly) unique in this community, and I really appreciate the time you take to write these comparison topics as well as the time you spend creating your mods and keeping them updated.

I may be on your ignore list after this thread yesterday http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=985166 so I'm not even sure this will be read by you.
We perhaps had our disagreements on the subject, but in no place on the thread did I directly attack any magic overhaul. All that was given were some observations - regardless if we agreed on them or not.
As with most mods, most magic overhauls do have faults which can, and at times, are abused by users and that's all that was being put forward.

Personally speaking, considering punishing the entire community by withdrawing the thread after a petty disagreement with one individual is a little over the top for a reaction.

Thank you. :clap:
Did you even read the thread in question before you came away with these remarks?

Christ's sake. You -were- opinionated, and a nozzle.

Yes, overhauls have exploitable features, but so does vanilla, and most overhauls try to eliminate some of the exploits available there.
The thing here is that NPCs can use the "exploits", too.

God forbid any of us have an opinion offensive to another. He stated multiple times it was his take on the matter, and that he did NOT mean to bash any specific overhaul. Of course its opinionated, if its coming out of his mouth, it IS his opinion is it not?

Time and time again I see people get so heated over little things like this, just cause of the nature of mods. They're free, but the amount of work in blood, sweat and tears is often phenomenal. I just find it extremely disappointing when a modder even gives thoughts to remove any work. That may not be a popular opinion around here, or if it is, few are willing to admit it, but I will right here.

For the record, I am a proud user of LAME and appreciate everything you do for the community bg, please don't remove this thread.

No, he didn't, but coming into here and acting morally superior was too much for me.

Don't delete this thread! It's quite helpful. I'm personally trying to decide between LAME & SM at the moment. I've used LAME before, but it was quite a while back, and I installed it during a game where I was already fairly high leveled, so I probably didn't experience it from the beginning as one should. So I'm currently looking at what the two bring to the table to try to decide which fits my style better, and which will work with my current setup the most optimally (though at the moment, I don't see any issues arising from either).

Can't decide? Don't! Use them both

Well, which order should they be loaded in then? Because from what I understand ony one overhaul would take effect (the last one loaded), with Midas Magic being the exception since (if I recall correctly) it is it's own entity anyways. I ought to note that I'm using a full FCOM setup, if it makes a difference. I guess I'm curious as to which one of LAME and SM ought to take precedence over the other to work best... :shrug:

BOSS lists LAME after SM, but whichever loads previous will be overriden, apart from the new spells.

I don't know why I didn't think to look at BOSS's Masterlist; I do it all the time.

I've always used LAME. To me it makes sense and keeps getting better. I'd like to see an optional OBSE add-on esp for LAME to give it some extra pep.

Please dont delete this. I have this thread bookmarked, in case i have to look something up or look at other comparisons. Im a magic lover and would really be sad if you deleted this thread. In fact, it was in this thread that i found out LAME existed. So please dont delete it.

So it would still work reversing the order of the two (to have LAME load first to get it's spells, and have SM load afterwards so as to make use of its changes to the magic system (the main thing I see about being best about this is that SM is OBSE-powered and more customizable). Would LAME's spell notes still appear with this setup?

I personally use SM afterwards, I prefer it's stance on summons, and all of LAME's additional ESPs work fine, Including J'What's-her-name's notes

SM being OBSE actually applies its special effects to spells wherever it is. Only thing that is different is the stats of spells use how LAME defines them. Load SM after and it uses SM's stats. If SM loads afterwards though all of LAME's new summons are missing and is why you load the SMConjurationOverride plugin that comes with LAME so that those summons are also present but balanced to SM's values.


@Shikishima: Oooh Looks like i missed all the action yesterday then :angel: I am most likely biased but agree with most of bg's comments in the thread. (Just for the record I think FOTM might of been a poor example though because the UOP does pretty much the same change LAME and SM does ) Still your arguments pretty much does back up why i've continued to improve customizability for users in supreme magicka and i'm a strong beleiver in allowing users to choose there there own game for challenging gameplay to outright cheating :gun: (I guess thats partly because of the influence Newcomer24's modding work had on me and the bedazzlement of options he gave users in a levelling mod lol :clap: Config is the right way to go with solid defaults )

I am also morally superior to everyone in this thread :intergalactic:

:D

No, you aren't!

*Whacks Bonk over the head with Deetsan*

Then i shall have to blast this significant other to the significant other world *piraty laugh* ah ha
That will show how much i truly care bliviongate:

If that plan fails though let it be known i am morally inferior to _Bonk_ :facepalm:

This thread helped me decide which overhall to use

It makes me sad when people delete info/data because we are all poorer without it. - :read: = :ahhh:

Ah, thanks for that; I'm beginning to understand better how these two work together.