And how does free spells compare to melee builds doing way more damage and being able to spam melee attacks all day long with no stamina loss?

The open lock spell was always unfair for those who trained the lockpick skill.

Well, in fact you're agreeing with me and khamsin. The magic system is just not well done. Using lots of weak spells against a strong enemy don't letting him do anything just doesn't make any sense and completely ruins my gaming experience as a mage

That is completely and utterly aside the point.
'Fair' in a single player game.

And now my mage is not a mage anymore because he has to pick locks, so he is a mage/ thief hybrid.
There is zero, nothing, nada wrong with allowing multiple paths towards the same goal for different builds.
In fact, warriors should be able to bash open a lock.

And I want my climbing skill back dangnabbit.

WHAT?! You want the game to be a - *gasp* challenge? It is a single player game just don't use it if you find it overpowered....

OK, lets say Call of Duty had a portable mini nuke that was available right from the start. Allowed you to win no matter what. Would the argument be - just don't pick it up? I mean seriously you went out of your way to pick up the mini nuke sitting right in front of you. It is YOUR fault you ruined the game. Better to play stupid - do dumb things. Pick up the pistol instead. The game is really fun if you ignore the mini nuke and pick up the pistol. You svck for playing smart, real players play dumb and pick up the pistol. Min-maxing power gaming mini-nuke user.

Ack, the logic on these boards is mind numbing sometimes.

I don't care if melee is even more unbalanced. I am just asking for beth to do something about the MS, because it doesn't work well

You have to be kidding me... This is what I feared would return from Oblivion. I am only level 37, and I am starting to find the resilience of low level enemies over-bearing.... It is as if I should have just stayed at level 20, except I can't because of how they changed player-character leveling.

I guess, I may just start playing on Novice difficulty and limit my health bar to 200-300 max, since that seems to be the only work-around......

Edit: Never mind, the post was sarcastic.

There's a reason why Call of Duty doesn't have that mini nuke in the beginning, right? The football/soccer games don't have an overpowered dribble for some reason... RTS don't have a god like ultra cheap soldier for some reason.... Think a little about that

"Ack, the logic on these boards is mind numbing sometimes."

There is always a way of being overpowered in games that doesn't require unbalancing the whole system. It's called changing the difficulty level.

hmmm.....if the magic system is too OP for you well good for you; if you do not like it please go play another character that is not an assassin or mage. I get sick of people who are like, " oh this blah blah blah is too OP nerf it".

This is not in the class of stupid MMORPGs where you are playing different classes against other OP classes controlled by other human players.

Your calls for balancing is going to ruin this game. Look; if I want to enjoy wtfpwning ppl with my sneak bonuses or my super enchantments that is my business; not yours. You think 1 hand, 2 hand, dual, archery and magic are OP? Fine play another char that does not use those skills or do not learn the perks; however several players that normally do not come to this forums are going to be very upset if the opinions of a select few that are unenlightened make the game makers alter the combat setup and or the skill trees.

To the makers of this game, please do not alter the combat mechanics or the damage of the skills just because of a few ppl. Thank you

It is simle really to fix the problem
1. Have spell dmg/effects scale to Skill Level
2. Drop the spell costs. Really, some of the spell costs are outlandish
3. Cap the lower magic costs enchantments/alchemy

The strongest "pure" mage skips all of the destruction/conjuration lower spell cost perks and heads straight for enchantment. No need to blow 10-20 perks on reducing spell costs when Enchanting can handle it. Why bother putting points into magica? Stick points in health. Enchantment, enchantment and more enchatments! Period. Any less is just playing dumb for fun.

Even better carry around a couple of different items that lets you get 0 spell cost for all the spell schools! Change gear as needed. I am an arch magi with 10 magicka! But of course it is MY fault for playing this way.

100% of spell reduction makes me feel a completly idiot when i level magicka amounts

You will make a great parent! Go play your two year old at tick-tack-toe and DON'T place the an X to block her two O's. Pretend you did not see them. She will love you for it!

While that is enjoyable to see your child when a game, it is not particular pleasureable to see a stupid computer ai kick my butt cause I am playing stupid. You may enjoy it, but I don't.

Nah, if anything is OP it's enchanting. The problem is you can get to 100% magicka reduction and free spells. Destruction needs buffing, if anything, and magicka reduction should be capped at 90%.

Thats not destruction being OP, thats you exploiting enchanting.


It's like me calling melee OP by using smithing/ench to get a 260 damage Sword. Add alchemy for 500 damage.


WIthout this little trick, Destro is quite pathetic. It is also boring as all hell since only 1-2 spells are useful past 30. Only 1 spell past 40.

No it should not.
Its an intentional feature.

If anything mages are gimped beyond recognition this installment.
I cannot believe people want to hollow out magic even more.

Where on earth is my feather spell?

I have a mage up to level 52, Destruction(fire)/ Conjuration based and I'm having fun with it, I find it neither too weak nor OP. Destruction on its own will seem to be weak because of the high HP that some levelled enemies have which is why it is better to mix the schools and play to the strengths, use a summons/companion to tank then stay back and fry them from a distance.

If they get close to you then Ethereal shout will render you invunerable for a few seconds while still allowing you to damage them with spells.

Could it be better? Of course, but nothing is perfect and pretty much everything could be better.

Edit: and no I'm not using the 100% reduction technique. As an Alchemist I can churn out unlimited strong health+fortify and mana+regen potions, also potions that boost destruction damage.

"hmmm.....if the magic system is too OP for you well good for you"

I don't know if you noticed I am not happy with it

"if you do not like it please go play another character that is not an assassin or mage"
"Your calls for balancing is going to ruin this game"

When I wrote this post, I thought that I was doing something good for the community. Instead, I received answers like "the game system isn't well designed. It should stay like that". It really frightens me what ES is becoming because of "players" like this.

Again, if you enjoy "wtfpwning ppl", just use cheats, mods, lower difficulty lvl, wtv. Let the MAJORITY of people who enjoy some challenge play a normal game.

"several players that normally do not come to this forums are going to be very upset if the opinions of a select few that are unenlightened make the game makers alter the combat setup and or the skill trees."

I wonder if game makers follow the "unenlightened" opinions blindly... If they don't agree they won't change it

"To the makers of this game, please do not alter the combat mechanics or the damage of the skills just because of a few ppl. Thank you"

That angry offended tone of yours just shows that you're irritated by the fact that it's not just some few ppl who demand a change. It's the majority of the ES gamers

Finally, someone who uses his brain

If you find mages weak, it's ok. We are just making proposals to change the magic system to a new one.

The proposal is making spells scale correctly with destruction lvl and lower the destruction reduction enchantment a bit so that people don't use 0 cost spells with great dmg. This isn't necessarily a nerf

Well, I really would not mind being able to use streams and runes past level 20.
Or not having to recast magelight every minute.

But any overhaul of magic also needs to introduce some sorely missed effects such as dispel, waterwalk, cure disease.

Not trying to sound cynical but I fully expect that to occur in a DLC. 4.99 and you get some "new" spell effects.

To be honest, when they annouced you could not craft spells I was expecting a spell system simlar to D&D. With unique effects. Charms/Crowd Controls/Direct Damage/Insta Death with Save. Instead we got the exact same effects from Oblivion - just watered down. Which blows. Even some spell mods for Oblivion are much better then Skyrim. Bring on the mods!

I lolled @ orig post.

So unlimited mass paralyize/fury/calm/invisiblity/Dremora Lord Summons is not OP?

Destruction is horribly gimped endgame, and even quite a good bit before then. Without impact it would be unusable. If anything impact should be removed so that damage and overall "fun" improvements can be added. Spamming one spell well over 10 times to kill a single enemy is ridiculous, no matter whether they are stunlocked or not.



Notice how none of those are destruction?