1 towershield can shield a lot of ppl from fireballs, archer can kill a mage before he can think of wth is going on

its like splitting an army into tanks anti air, planes etc, they need to be together to work efficiently

You have to take into account all 3 major schools are used in wars, stealth for assassinations, magic and combat for battles.

First I'd like to say I completely agree with Orzorn, you will never hear about stealth hero's because.. well.. they are stealth.

Now, on topic. In a battle both are almost always used. But you must also take into account that it takes alot of skill and dedication to learn magic, and in the Morrowind world mostly only the wealthy can afford to practice magic, and mostly everyone isn't rich, everyone else practices combat. I'm guessing there is like a 1:6 mage:warrior ratio. Which basically means for every 1 mage there will be 6 warriors. Using that, I'd say every mage vs. every warrior, it'd be close.

Agreed. Too many people think PvP as opposed to full out conflict. The Imperial Legion uses a combination. You've got your Battlemages, Knights, Legionnaires, Archers and Scouts. Sure you can walk into a cave with your mage and roast some marauder sitting there and I'd say that's pretty realistic, but as BlueBit said, the time and cost it would take to train a mage is far more than what it would take to train a warrior.

I think the best way to look at the 3 different specializations is to look at how they solve the same problem, not how they would fare in a fight against each other. Each one offers a different way of doing something. One bashes through, one thinks through, and the other sneaks through. The warrior seaks fame and glory, the mage seeks knowledge (they aren't all out there to burn things up), and one wants someone else's coin.

Buah! How do some people figure that assassins>mages. Here's what you do, as a mage: You get yourself a nice robe. Or armor. Preferrably with red flowers. Pink is fine too. Then, you put it on a table. The robe. With flowers. Then, you use your mighty spells to enchance it. Say, permanent shield. Or something. A permanent spell, say, that hits the first attacker, if it's offensive spell you wish to use. Yes. Say, paralyze. The second an assassin touches you, he's paralyzed. Yes! Paralyzed. Or a defensive spell, oh yes! Invisibility, you say? Yay, I answer! That would be fairly good! You disappear when an assassin attacks you! Yes! Or even better, an really effective shield spell, that would just cause his attack not to harm you at ALL. Yay for magic! Magic! Wooh! Oh yes. It's your choice. If you're a powerful mage, nothing can stop you. Oh no. Unless they take your enchanted item off you. Well, you'd notice that, no? Unless you like it! Oh, oh, unless you like it! I hope you don't. Oh fairies, I hope you don't. Even then, if you would like it, you'd have some protective stuff you could do. Hello hello hello! Cast a protective spell immediately when it ends! Only good if you're really paranoid, if you're not powerful, since you'd have to do it a lot! Oh, a lot a lot!

But, behold! If you are powerful, it could last the whole day! Whole day, you ask? Whole day, I answer! Thus, the answer is! Mages>Warriors>Assassins>Rats

Oh, but there is something else you should know! That rule only applies if you're a powerful mage! A powerful mage>Powerful warrior>Powerful assassin>Weak rat

If you are not powerful, what happens, you ask? Oh no you didn't! Yes you did! Nay! Yay! Well, I'll tell you! What usually happens, is that mages DIE when they're on the low to mid POWER LEVEL (when their power level isn't OVER NINETHOUSAND hU hA eHE). Yes! It's not an old joke! Shut your tongue! Ohhh! What if you don't have one? No worries, there's blueberries! Yes! So if we're not talking about a powerful mage, but a low to medium skilled mage, here is how it goes! A low to medium warrior>A low to medium mage. An assassin would, I'm afraid, have to be highly skilled to kill either one of these, though. Since if he fails his stealth, he's toasted! A toasted assassin, how would that look? Not pretty. Not pretty at all. Apples and oranges, that is not. So yes, A low to medium warrior>A slightly more skilled assassin than the others>A low to medium mage.

If you're a mage, an advice I have! Become powerful before you go out challenging those skyscraqers!

Apparently, Necromancers are the most powerful force.

I've heard others say the same.

How come when somebody brings a good topic back up everyone shouts 'Necromancy,' but this crapshoot gets a pass?

What are you talking about? Orzorn shouted "NECROMANCY! FOR GODS SAKE, NECROMANCY!" and I've heard others say the same.

Yes without a doubt magic is the all powerful force.But when you consider warriors can get magic items and exploit them they could nulify a mages power.But the warrior would also have to have magic of some type.So a case could be made on strategy, if the battle was one on one.However a entire army of mages could probaly not be defeated,it would be a slaughter.

Hold your horses!

Isn't the "raw mythic energy" supossed to be the most powerful stuff imaginable?

I don't know if 'raw energy' is a good way to describe it. I don't see mythopeia being a quantifiable, exothermic entropic whatever glow of light that blows open doors. But manipulation of mythpoeia, the legal precedent on a cosmic scale, can lead to mundane power, I suppose.

Allerleirauh makes it sound sixy nevertheless.

Nothing is more reliable than a fine steele longsword. Especially when it is lodged in a High Elfs chest.

Blasphemy! why use manmade when you can summon swords. a conjurer's speciality brought to you by dagon the mundus leader in destruction since the mythic era.

Think of a gun. if you don't know how to use it and have no aim whatsoever, a guy with a sword could easily kill you, but you could still land a lucky shot and kill him. But iif you have the best aim on record and know your gun back to front, then someone with a sword hads no chance unless he was covered in kevlar head to toe, or something else rediculous. it's the same with magic. If you don't know how to use it and have very little affinity for magicka, then you probably don't stand a chance. But if you are a master of destruction with enough power to rival the gods, then I'd say yeah, you're pretty damn set.

But then you have all these people and their CHIM and other [censored]. I say that's all just higher, maybe more (or less, perhaps?) pure forms of magic.

What is magic, anyway? The use of Aetherial run-off collected in the same way as a Tower? You stand for an identity and perspective and can gather the rays of the sun in a similar fashion?

You then compute it into action based on learned skills, certain raw instincts and cultural or religious beliefs?

Hmm. I'd wager that mages are the most powerful, simply because they're the least limited. Warriors and thieves sort of have to answer to basic thresholds of power/stamina, such that you won't see your average warrior jumping 1,000 feet into the air and cutting a mountain in half.... whereas a mage could, potentially, get himself to a level where his power is ridiculous and nigh-unstoppable.

Also, I'd say Jagar Tharn was more of a thief than a mage. Sure, he put up a hell of a fight at the end of it all, but he certainly was covert and sneaky when it came to getting to where he wanted to be. All the business with his alter-egos, and whatnot? Sure, his official title was 'battlemage', but he didn't get into the emperor's seat of power by blasting apart the Imperial City. He used some extremely 'thief'ish actions to bring about his goals.

You have to be a thief to be conniving now? I thought the general understanding was of a person who habitually steals stuff.

I always thought the Elder Scrolls got out of the ridiculous character class pigeonholing when it allowed you to make a mage that won't be knocked over by a stiff breeze or disarmed by a toddler. Or a thief that could rely on brute force. Or a knight with all the strength and bravery of brave Sir Robin. You know, as would be the case in real life. Daggerfall's character creation was very good at giving this impression, although skills were overpowered and you could choose far too many of them.

True but the archtypes were always there in terms of star signs and general guild-divisions. I think that if we skip the metaphysical mambo-jumbo of later years, magic would indeed be the strongest force known to TES people.

Well, if you look at Arena's character creation, it definitely wasn't just 'thieves = steal stuff'. They were portrayed as 'creative problem solvers' in a way, who had no real loyalties save for their own.... I'm not saying that this word is law, of course not, but the actions and attitudes of Jagar Tharn always struck me as more of a 'thief' than a 'mage', in the broad, general sense. Sure, he wasn't sneaking around, picking people's locks and fencing their silver gobblets, but tricking an entire empire into thinking he's their emperor for a whole ten years isn't something just anyone can pull off.

Plus, if we take 'The Real Barenziah' at face value, we know that he's an incredibly persuasive speaker and has a special knack for illusion magics.

So I dunno. He's definitely more than just 'a mage'.

That's ridiculous. Seriously. "he's a thief because he has brains"
"he's definately not a mage because he can use his brains"

That's what you're saying. He was just using his brains, not being "thievish"........

"So I dunno. He's definitely more than just 'a mage'."
He's definately just a mage.

No bearing on what I was saying. Archetypes are impersonal ideals exemplifying a single thing; might, magic, stealth. Guild divisions focus on ability in their respective fields (Oblivion's lenient policies about advancement be damned). They do not exist to propagate stereotypes of frail old wizards and stupid warriors and cunning thieves.

A guild, is at its heart, a BUSINESS.

Be it a pottery guild, a lapidary guild, a carpentry guild, etc.


A mage's guild is an umbrella corporate structure, which ensures that the craft will be practiced, and more importantly, that fees will be charged for the service.

The way the guilds in TES gameplay are portrayed would NEVER work. In most ACTUAL guilds, progressing from apprentice to journeyman required several years of tutelage, often with a prescribed number of years of apprenticeship before being risen in rank. Journeymen then refined their arts, added their own touches, and blossomed to become master craftsmen, and took on apprentices.

They did jobs FOR CASH, of which, a portion of all earnings were paid as GUILD DUES.


The PCs I have played have had a decided dirth of guild politics, and the odd-jobs have all be internal, without contract agreements with paying customers, as would occur in a REAL guild.

"Oh yeah, Old man Traven said that you are supposed to go to Skingraad. Count Skingraad has a little chore for our guild; Apparently some rather nasty vampires have surfaced outside town, and he wants them gone, before any more vampire hunters show up. BE SURE HE PAYS."

I was wondering if creatia itself could be deemed most powerful. I haven't read all of the previous replies, so i don't know if this was even mentioned yet. I'd feel that would be a viable candidate for "strongest" but I honestly don't know a ton about it.