I mean say High Elves went up against orc, nord or redguards on an even field. One fireball can take out dozens of soldiers, yet a swordsman has to go one on one. Not to say other races can't use magicka, but if the magicka is truly great then it is far more useful than any sword. I mean imagine bringing a redguard to the future. He gets shot. Imagine bringing a high elf to the future, he stops the bullet with a forcefield or makes himself invisible and kills the guy with lightning. I think magick is something tthat can't be taken away. Like if a swordsman gets his sword taken away or broken he is no longer able to do much. but magick comes from inside, it dies with the person and lives as long as the person lives. Magicka is a force, swords/axes are mere items. U can obviously have resist magick armor to some extent, but who says mages can't have resist physical damage heavy armor or something along those lines.


You thinks mages are more important than warriors? Who do you think would win nords who are known to be physiical or high elves mostly mages?

Stunt magicka + Sword = Mage Shishkabob

Mages will kick Warriors ass all the way back to Oblivion!

This sounds like a game-related question... if so, I'd say warriors and mages are rather evenly matched. Unless the mage happens to have a paralyse spell and is able to summon a clannfear, in which case the warrior is daedra fodder.

In the lore case, I would say mages are more important. One can only do so much with brute force. Tiber Septim would never have conquered Sancre Tor if it weren't for the traitorous Breton sorcerer that defected to him. The Imperial Battlemage is traditionally the Emperor's most important adviser... and is sometimes more cunning than the Emperor himself, as evidence by Tharn and the ten years of Imperial Simulacrum.

Mages can be stopped. Silence, Damage/Absorb/Drain Magicka, and Dispel effects are all detrimental to a mage. Remove their magical abilities from the equation, and a warrior will have their way with a mage.

The true threat is when a mage is mundanely powerful too. These are called Battlemages. The best are as learned and skilled with magic as the most arcane sorcerer, and are as mighty and adept with a weapon as the most savage barbarian. If you silence the points of their fingers, you still must contend with the point of their (likely self-enchanted) sword.

The Mage is one of the Guardian constellations. That alone is proof of the importance of magic in Tamriel.

But then, so too are the Warrior and the Thief. What the Mage accomplishes through scholarly learning and magic, the Warrior accomplishes through strength of arms and fierce fighting spirit, and the Thief through cunning and deception.

In Tamriel, the old adage "Never bring a knife to a gun fight" does not necessarily apply - or, rather, it does, but neither magic nor swords nor poisoned daggers are the 'guns' in this case. All three are equally viable for the Ruling King.

Hope this helps,

Loranna

This topic earns a "guh".

mages have magica. when that runs out they are essentaily skrewed :spotted owl:

about nords v. altmer, you forgot that the nords have Thu-um. about altmer v. redguad, you forgot the redguar's ability to split atoms with their sword

I think the redguards win by default with the continent breaking sword techniques.

Note to self: release Thu'um mod for Oblivion.

Talking pure classes, a pure mage and a pure warrior of master level, a mage will win. This is pure class,meaning no magic for warriors, and no weapons for the mage. The only way a warrior could truly pull it off is with the aid of enchantments, which is in itself the use of magic. However, in lore fighting classes are not as restricted as they are in-game. Several nord warriors know the secrets of the Thu-um, and Redgaurd warriors knowing of the Pankrato sword, able to cut the uncut able. Both clear examples of magic like abilities produced through willpower and strength of spirit.

In Tamriel's history, all have been equally important. Pelinal was very clearly a warrior, while Tharn was very clearly a mage. Another example would include the Tribunal. Im hard pressed to think of any stealth based heros in lore, most likely because they were good enough at their art to not me caught. You never hear of masters of stealth, because a master of stealth is neither seen, heard,nor heard about.

Yeah, the only real threat to a well-trained Battlemage would be a well-trained assassin, which you never fight in TES. Well, you do, technically, but they come charging at you like an idiot. I'll be impressed if TES V has opponents that utilize stealth, if they could work it in.

Until then: Battlemage = Win.

Not really. Considering they have to learn both magical and mundane combat they'll either cost a fortune to train and will takes ages or they'll be expert in neither.

The former makes them too valuable to use for heavy combat and the latter just puts them on par with ordinary forces.

That would require voice-acting and mp3 files...

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I think I see what MK means; this topic and the ALMSIVI thread are like debating how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. Meaningless in the end.

Pretty much. Finding a skillful battlemage is quite a task, as The Art of War Magic states quite well:
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The Art of War Magic-

3. When planning a campaign, take account of both the arcane and the mundane. The skillful battlemage ensures that they are in balance; a weight lifted by one hand is heavier than two weights lifted by both hands.


4. When the arcane and mundane are in balance, the army will move effortlessly, like a swinging door on well-oiled hinges. When they are out of balance, the army will be like a three-legged dog, with one leg always dragging in the dust.


6. The skillful battlemage ensures that the enemy is already defeated before the battle begins. A close-fought battle is to be avoided; the fortunes of war may turn aside the most powerful sorcery, and courage may undo the best-laid plans. Instead, win your victory ahead of time. When the enemy knows he is defeated before the battle begins, you may not need to fight.

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As the book says: a skilled battlemage is well balanced, and powerful in both arcane and mundane skills and thought. Battlemages must plan and scheme for the best outcome, but be able to compromise if problems arise.

Actually, it's mostly done. I just re-used some sound files that felt appropriate for shouting somebody to death.

Talk about shouting somebody down.

Magic may be powerful, but mages are not invincible, they still have their weaknesses. And take away their ability to use magic, say using a silence spell, or usin your own magic to make yourself immune to magic, and the mage is no more than a normal person. It could even be argued that warriors may, be more capable than mages in some ways. At least even if they lose their weapin, they may still be able to get another one. But when mages are silenced, there is little they can do.

Besides, the mages in the Elder Scrolls games are not even that powerful, though this is probably for game balance purposes rather than to reflect actual lore.

In any case, if magic were all powerful and it were as commonly available as it seems in the Elder Scrolls games, swords and bows wouldn't even exist, as there would be no need for mundane weapons, or even mundane tools, for that matter, everyone could rely on magic to take care of everything.

seconded. Let's have a rock-paper-scissors thread instead, eh?

Rock it totally awesome! Just look at it, it can cut crush the scissors and the scissors cut the paper so clearly Rock is the most superior of the three!

Unless its pumice!

Then Selma will rub it on her feet.

They could quaff a Dispel potion they concocted to dispense with the Silence effect.

ALCHEMY: The mage's trump card!

Not to mention you either need a spell, alchemical poison (produced using a mage skill), or an enchanted item (created by an enchanter, ie, a mage) to actually inflict silence on a mage.

Ansei have the spirit sword. That sword is hardly "stealable" or breakable...unless you stole the very essence of the wielder or broke his spirit. In either case, the redguards, with their spirit sword ability, demonstrate just one of the many powerful combinations of the classic mage and warrior archetype. To be good at either, one may need to consult the other. Consider this: a warrior fights with a blade or weapon. To win, the warrior must close the gap and properly utilize said weapon. How to do this can be done through various actions. a mage, conversely, is not so clear cut in goal. does that make the mage superior? Not necessarily. If a mage specializes in deadly touch spells, they will be focusing on close the gap. If it is in target spells, then distance applies. What if the mage is fighting an archer? Both the mage and warrior need to understand the strengths of the other to become truly potent warriors. As a result, this topic has no clear answer because as the TES history shows, various heroes are not one or the other. Though there are those that specialized in one area, there are countless heroes that made such a reputation through harmonizing the power of magicka and muscle.

My 2 cent.
-Hexon