Much like everything it all depends on the character you are playing. Personally I think the idea of a physically weak, glass character who directs his summoned minions into battle.

Certainly I fail to see the difference in using summons and screaming behind a rock and running screaming for the nearest Imperial Encampment so they can deal with the threat for you...

The choices of spells do seem a bit limited, but overall, magic isn't underpowered.

That said, Destruction, is, IMO under powered for what it is supposed to do. It is best left (IMO) as a supplemental school of magic, best used in conjunction with Illusion and/or conjuration, as previously stated.

That has not been my experience, at least not in the early game. I have found destruction to be fine in the early game -- its only later, when you start facing the scaled enemies and your spells don't keep up that well and you start having to rely on impact spamming that destruction starts to falter. But in the beginning of the game, I've never had an issue with destruction, even when playing on expert or master.

May have to do with how mobile your character is and how much use you make of the novice level spells. Those can be burst cast and are very magicka efficient. When you burst cast them, the novice flames spell can do incredible damage since the burning effect stacks. When you burst cast the novice frostbite spell you can slow enemies down dramatically and keep them slowed as long as you continue burst casting. You don't get nearly the same effects from constant casting of these spells.

Destruction is underpowered but Illusion and alteration are pretty strong. Destruction can be useful with impact and lower the cost with enchanted gear.

I think the highest level I got with a pure mage was around level 25. I didn't have much trouble power wise that I recall. However, I was bored stupid by lack of variety and pretty much just quit any mage play.

Idk about you but I don't make special weapons for each creature.


I'm thinking of making one specifically for soul trap, because having it on my main weapon is causing me to have more soul gems than I know what to deal with, but aside that, absorb health/stamina and my bow has paralysis. That's... It.


What's disappointing is that I'm one shotting draugr Deathlord at 52 on legendary with a legendary dragonbone 1h sword.


Please tell me there's a stronger variant of them.


I'm one shotting them sometimes with my bow from sneak, with no sneak perks(3/5 overdraw, 70 archery skill, dragonbone bow/arrows).


Sad.

Well....Sulu....

I have never found an imperial camp in a Dwarven ruin, nor in a tomb !!! But I bet theres a few conjourers who have cleared whole dungeons with out ever actually fighting either magically or physically. Don't sweat it..... Just fire the good ol' summon and hide down the passage until its all done. Then tell everyone how you beat this dungeon or that fort etc....prolly on novice too


Well, I'm not telling people how to play, but that tactic ain't impressing anyone and certainly not me, is all I'm saying. I respect players who face their enemies and defeat them in fair combat by whatever means. The odd summon casting is jolly useful and makes a good distraction no argument there.....like I said...as a combat support buddy, but not fire and forget. Then pat yourself publicly on the back saying how great you are at the game when actually the summon did it all....but I have already made that point.....so y'know.....all done here

Sakiri......hon....its not the one Deathlord that takes you down. Get into a bad 'ol tomb and they begin to mob you. First two or three....then at even higher levels you'll see more turn up until you are in a narrow passage hacking into five of them.


What happens next is the killer hon, while you are fighting/ defending two in front either....one more sneaks up from behind OR an archer with ebony weapons set appears behind the two youre engaging and pops lethal hits into you....but you cant get to him!


I generally get to Skuldafynn in the MQ by about level 50..... Several DLs at once......needs good block skills to survive!

Why are you standing there and letting a bear hit you?

Flame cloak and chain lightning.

As for your ideas about using summons, I'd point out that summons are more useful on high difficulty than they are at Novice, since summons are unaffected by the difficulty setting.

I don't understand why it's all right to have a human companion like Lydia to take the heat for you, but it's not all right to summon an atronach for the same purpose. Or why it's okay to sneak up on an enemy and get a sneak-attack bonus with a paralysis-poisoned weapon, but it's underhanded to let a summoned helper handle the combat for you.

Wrong.

You might have to do that, I didn't. I have a pure lvl 81+ Mage and only 1/2 to 2/3 of his items are crafted.

I'm not sure why the original question was asked, since it answered itself by the end of the post. Posts that start with "I'm level blah-blah and I'm bored...." end up sounding like "I'm so uber, look at how powerful my character is. Show me how to find more challenge, mortals! MWAHAHAHAHA!". Or is the opposite.... the OP heard some people (and many have) complain that magic in Skyrim is not good and wanted to test it?

Personally, I like magic in Skyrim. Impact helps Destruction not be poorer. Could Skyrim Magic be better? Sure. But I would never go back to Oblivion or before. I know pretty graphics alone do not make a game, but on top of the gameplay (which is mostly good) my modded Skyrim looks and feels good to me. Oblivion is a respected part of history for most Elder Scrolls players, but not me. I've tried every game since the second one in the series and while I have had variable experiences Skyrim is the first which has had over 500+ and persuaded me to buy 'extras'.

Neither do I. Not a problem here.

Compare this to previous games where weapons and fists stopped enemies, but set them on fire or electrocute them and they don't give a toss; they all just carried running and swinging at you until one of you dropped dead like they were in some sort of berserk trance.

Why? I don't play previous TES games. But in any case, I'm mostly okay with Skyrim magic as it is. -100+% Mana Cost is cheesy, but irrelevant to me. I do quite well with -65% to -80% on my current mage (depending on current gear selected).

53, in Soul Cairn, need Glenmoril heads and have to do Diplomatic Immunity. No CoW, no Thieves guild, no Brotherhood.


And not enough magicka in the Cairn to summon Arvak because of the drain(werewolf still).

I'm just not a fan of summons.


I like the idea of nuking the crap out of my enemies. I don't like the idea of having to stunlock them to death because unless I mod it, the only way to make my spells do more damage is to drink potions.


Skill affects mana cost. That's it. Enchanting affects cost. That's it.


I don't want to have to svck down pots like a skooma addict in order to have my spells do anything.


That said, followers(and summons) aren't affected by difficulty. I'm finding now I like mine as a pack mule, mostly because I one shot stuff. A lot. On legendary.


I'm not getting swarms of Deathlords, nor am I seeing anything stronger, but I three shot an elder dragon today and that just felt bad man.

Well lets see now.....I didn't say I thought it ok for Lydia to do the same job as a summon in the same context.....FWIW, I don't use followers now.....but even when I did use her, I never just let her handle all my dirty work while I hid cowardly around the corner....she was always support....we were a team.

My comments would apply equally to those who invade a tomb mob handed with three followers including a dog.


Remember.....I said...imo a summon for 'combat support'.....but not 'fire and forget'. Keeping it in context is important because I am NOT against ALL summon use...as I have carefully explained.


The sneaking up and poisoning comment.......trickier, but the point is it that it is still you engaging the foe AND taking the risk of discovery. On top of that sneak attackers of any type have to spend a relatively long time in the danger zone......fire and forget summoners run just near enough ping off a summon and high tail it back to safety......never actually engaging a foe.


Flame cloak and chain lightning eh.....well I nave not tried that under close combat curcumstances.....as you find in tomb passageways for example. However, I do know the time taken to cast a spell is long enough for a Deathlord to get two hits into you while you are temporarily defenceless.....so facing two DL means four hits on you which means Dead! Also of course.....don't forget I mentioned the very frequently encountered DL archer with ebony weapons. These guys are often one hit killers.....Those spells had better work first time cos you won't get a second chance.


Why not try try all this out under proper combat conditions......lets say taking the mage into Forelhost at say level 50 on Legendary cos thats what I'm talking. Post us a video and I'll be munching my hat


If Skyrim were real and I was in it......yes I WOULD do exactly that....summon ALL the time and keep myself out of danger like a great big wussy.....do ya think I'm a heroic warrior type IRL (over age and overweight.....remember Newheim The Portly from Anvil?). I would throw summons through doorways like you'd use a grenade and runnnn (walk briskly!). Adella, and her earlier self Ulda, are kinda my alter egos......everything practically dead opposite to me. Courageous and magnificent, they bask in the glory of valour (sigh). Me, I'd be bricking it

Then why are you using dragonbone weapons? I've never had any use for them daedric is more than powerful enough, and probably better to stick with ebony.

Oh Sakiri....if you want tougher than a Deathlord on Legendary at level 52.......just pop into a few Dwarven ruins and say hi to some Falmer Warmongers in hardened armour. Seriously tough buggers, and lots of 'em.


But in all fairness, yes with powerful weapons and really good armour, even on Legendary the top foes are killable. Why do you think Sah and I spend a whole week IRL just grinding up before we can dive down the worst holes. We don't want to get marmalised when we are playing DiD.....if theres not a good chance of survival ya don't go in !

Rick my mate, i'll have to disagree with your take on magic. I'm not usually a magic guy in any game but summoning a dremora lord or even an attronach seems even more badass to me than mastering a weapon. Imagine two people hitting a training dummy, one with his axe the other with his own frost attronach while at the same time dual casting chain lighting. Guess for whom the crowd will cheer.

FTY.......ya haven't read the discussions mate! At all, have you!


One......I am not "against magic" and we are only talking "use of summons" not lightning or anything else!


Two......reiterating.....I am not saying summons are bad if used as combat support.....as you aptly describe.


Three.....I simply said people whos combat tactic is throwing a summon into room then running off to hide (instead of engaging in combat magically or weaponised) earn no respect from me when they boast about clearing this tomb or that fort etc Using summons as grenades and doing little or no dirty work youself is game cop out.....imo.


Four.....what's your context got to do with combat?.....we fight Deathlords and Marauders not training dummies.....we have to think quickly, tactically and on the move. That my friend is where the skill lies whether you are flinging fireballs or weilding a sword! Where is the skill in firing off a summon at its best range then high tailing it back to a safe zone to hide. Yes you can clear whole dungeons like that....but to my mind its lazy and frankly without the honour of combat. May as well drop to novice for a walk in the park eh!


I have no problem with someone saying openly thats how they operate and not expecting adulation for their great gaming prowess. But you can't with hand on heart tell me that clearing room after room by summoning and running deserves any of the credit earned by those who take on foes directly by sword, bow or spell. Fighting ALONGSIDE a summon is fine in my book.


But now look.......I've had to write another novella just to explain my stance......yet again. This is precisely why I do not engage in half of the forum stuff that I could....you spend an hour on a long piece, then people either jump on just your last line ingnoring the rest....or worse, deliberately take a small segment out of context and dramatise it into world war three.....the number of times that's happened!


I think its time to summon myself out of this one!

However you play, enjoy your day!

I'm probably going to get told off for saying this, but I'm not sure I see the skill involved in loading yourself down with daedric and dragonbone, putting all the perk points into heavy armor and block and then standing there and trading blows with deathlords. That smacks of going to an awful lot of effort just so you can fight stupidly and survive.

If you want a challenge, try putting all your points into magicka and playing without using weapons or armor some time. In a few levels time you'll find yourself in a world where just about anyone you meet can one-shot you. Then you need to start getting a little creative when you fight

Mind it does help that most of my characters are unashamed cowards. Running and hiding is a big part of my tactics in most games

I don't really see how using, say just for example, 80 points of magica on summons that kill your enemies is any different to using 80 points of magica on fireballs to kill your enemies. There is no notable difference in player skill required, it's just a different style.

Sulu...I hate myself sometimes that I just can't drop it gaaaaa. Ok...ya svckered me in....one LAST time.


Look...I don't mean to be rude matey, cos I like ya an all, but are you actually "reading" what I said....


Final try.....So you see "NO NOTABLE DIFFERENCE IN PLAYER SKILL REQUIRED" really?


Ok...lets take this from a mages point of view and dispense with the entire magic vs melee angle (which is irrelevant to this debate).


Mage one....a destruction specialist.....is in a tomb passageway....it opens into draugr filled room! They use their choice of fireball or lightning spells and have to move quickly to avoid the archers arrows, they dodge the battleaxe weilding cadavers and jump on rubble to avoid getting backed into a corner. They cast a flesh spell to take the hit has they manoeuver between a gaggle of draugr, then turn around to unleash a double burst of fireballs. A ward soaks up a draugr frost attack then they gulp a couple of magicka potions and chain lighting the whole group before running into clear area to turn and fireball the last of them down. Magicka and nerves exhausted they recover for a few seconds before locating the room exit.


Mage two.....the (fire and forget) conjouration specialist........is in a tomb passageway....it opens into draugr filled room! They fire off a Dremora Lord and run back down the passageway to hide in sneak while waiting for the one minute summon timer to expire. It runs out. They head back to the room and take a sneaky look....oh dear! A couple of cadavers remain. They fire off their summon again....run back to the safe point and wait for one minute then sneak back to the room where it as all now deathly quiet. Good! Walk to the exit.


Now Sulu.....tell me again......how both players displayed the same level of skill to cope with that room.

Rick, i am one of those up close and personal dudes myself. I just said that in Skyrim in particular mages are hardcoe diehard badasees. Yeah some of them prefer to stay behind and let their summons clear everything but in the end a summon/thrall/atronach is a weapon like our axe and bow. We use our ebony mace to open skulls, they use a dead snow sabertooth. Both skills need time and effort to master both are deadly and that's why i'm a double mega badass spellsword.

Let me have a go...

OR, quickly backpedal down the corridor to take maximum advantage of the choke point. When they get into range, start laying down two-handed thunderbolts. With the impact perk you can keep three of them stun-locked at the same time, and the corridor means you won't have to deal with more than that.


Really, if they ever get close to battleaxe range, then you're doing it badly wrong.