magical talent : The Elder Scrolls Series Discussion

» Tue May 24, 2011 10:21 pm

I was just wondering how common magical talent is in tes universe?

in most fantasy universes i know about it is a rare gift (or in some cases, a curse), but is also so on nirn? or can everybody learn how to do it?

» Tue May 24, 2011 9:36 pm

Its not more or less a "talent" because anyone can use magic. Just like in D&D, anyone can learn magic. But there are no sorcerers (people who are born with the skill to use magic)

But there are some races better at it then others, most notably the Mer.

Just like anything else, one can increase their skill in the Arts by practice.

Its more reliant on race than the specific individual.

» Tue May 24, 2011 11:40 am

I don't think it's correct to say that it's more reliant on race than the specific individual's talent and sensitivity.
There are bound to be Khajiit that are as masterful magicians as any Altmer; it's just that there will be fewer talented Khajiit than there will be Altmer.

But yes OP, in TES anyone can use magic to some degree.

» Tue May 24, 2011 7:01 pm

Anybody can learn, but few can claim to be really awesome at it. So, it's like math. Math that can summon skeleton-warriors.

» Tue May 24, 2011 11:54 am

Is it comparable to weapon skill? Are 'expert' magicians as common as 'expert' swordsmen? Are people born as good (or bad) as magic as they are w/ a weapon? Most people could grab a knife or club in a pinch and use it (not well, but arguably 'capable'). So would the typical NPC be similarly capable of buying the cheapest fireball spell or water breathing spell and cast them as easily as they could swinging a club?

» Tue May 24, 2011 4:44 pm

Is it comparable to weapon skill? Are 'expert' magicians as common as 'expert' swordsmen? Are people born as good (or bad) as magic as they are w/ a weapon? Most people could grab a knife or club in a pinch and use it (not well, but arguably 'capable'). So would the typical NPC be similarly capable of buying the cheapest fireball spell or water breathing spell and cast them as easily as they could swinging a club?

I'd say that Haute's comparison is the best. Everyone can do math, just like everyone can do magic, but only some people really *get* it and have an aptitude for it or take jobs that use it a lot. And yes, the typical NPC can cast the cheapest fireball spell. most NPC's in oblivion average 70-130 magicka, and flare only costs 11 magicka.

» Tue May 24, 2011 6:36 pm

EDIT: My explanation was a bit stupid. Blegh.

» Tue May 24, 2011 10:46 am

I'll stay with the math explanation. Music works too. A spell is required to use magic effectively, but any fool can play with magic, and get eaten by an extra-dimensional demon, or spontaneously combust with improper timing. If they're lucky, they survive playing with magic, and it's that danger which makes specialized training necessary to be any good.

» Tue May 24, 2011 11:19 am

thanks for the answers people :icecream:

they will come in handy when i'm roleplaying :yes:

» Tue May 24, 2011 1:35 pm

I always got the impression that everyone could learn something of magic - (that's what the scrolls are for). But there's most definitely an element of natural magical talent attached to it, otherwise (if it were like math) they'd be more powerful mages than there seem to be. The number of mages or magic users in most settlements seems to be low in proportion to the number of people.

» Tue May 24, 2011 7:02 pm

I always got the impression that everyone could learn something of magic - (that's what the scrolls are for). But there's most definitely an element of natural magical talent attached to it, otherwise (if it were like math) they'd be more powerful mages than there seem to be. The number of mages or magic users in most settlements seems to be low in proportion to the number of people.

Lack of education is probably why most people don't really use magic. Try finding a person who did not learn any math, that could solve (X/9+5-3)*25=Y when x=95/54+12-1/3*97. Some people have an aptitude for math and some dont, but you can't summon Daedra when you don't know the first thing about Daedric summoning and conjuration.

» Tue May 24, 2011 8:53 pm

I agree it would seem that most people can at least use some very basic spells, as in the beginning of Oblivion, when any character you make can use Flare and Heal Minor wounds even if their limited magicka means they can only use it once or twice at a time.

Also Y = -42.2138047

» Tue May 24, 2011 8:42 pm

You didn't do your order of operations right. It's -1.59465 :whistling:

but you can't summon Daedra when you don't know the first thing about Daedric summoning and conjuration.

Sure-fire way to summon Mehrunes Dagon with no training required: raze a city to the ground. Although I suppose you could argue that isn't magical aptitude and more messing around with symbolism.

» Wed May 25, 2011 4:25 am

You didn't do your order of operations right. It's -1.59465 :whistling:

I'm blaming my calculator then. <_<
Having rerun it I'm inclined to believe for once I'm right, but hey that's rare so probably not. Where have I gone wrong?

» Wed May 25, 2011 5:01 am

x=95/54+12-1/3*97

Multiplication and division are done left to right before Addition and Subtraction. In the absence of parenthesis, you divide 95/54 (1.75925...), then divide 1/3, then multiply 1/3 by 97 (32.3). The rest is easy.

» Tue May 24, 2011 3:29 pm

Anybody can learn, but few can claim to be really awesome at it. So, it's like math. Math that can summon skeleton-warriors.

:sweat: Nice anology

» Tue May 24, 2011 10:57 pm

Sure-fire way to summon Mehrunes Dagon with no training required: raze a city to the ground. Although I suppose you could argue that isn't magical aptitude and more messing around with symbolism.

I don't recall that working with Kvatch.

» Wed May 25, 2011 3:50 am

I can't seem to find the source, but didn't Mehrunes Dagon join the fight after excessive amounts of destruction between the forces of Kvatch and the Camoran Usurper?

» Tue May 24, 2011 3:05 pm

I can't seem to find the source, but didn't Mehrunes Dagon join the fight after excessive amounts of destruction between the forces of Kvatch and the Camoran Usurper?

Both the Camoran Usurper and Mehrunes Dagon attacked Kvatch at some point, but I don't know of anything saying it was the same time. As I recall, the Camoran Usurper won against Kvatch, as opposed to Mehrunes Dagon, who got banished by battlemages.

» Wed May 25, 2011 4:02 am

But wouldn't that mean that Nocturnal would appear whenever there is mass darkness? (Night)

Or Jyggalag/Dagon would appear during wars?

Hmm... interesting... Daedric Princes... :tes: