Understanding that the Sun-star is essentially a big rip from Magnus' escape into Aetherius, and that his presence resulted in magic, does this mean that magicka can be likened to cosmic rays and everybody walking around is suffused with this radiation? Assuming this is true, how does this magicka get converted into the energy that creates spell effects? Or is magicka the "watered down" version of this radiation, so as to not cause severe damage to cellular structures?

Birthsigns have an obvious effect on this: The Atronach and Apprentice, for the more extreme examples. But do the smaller stars (again, holes to Aetherius) leak the same sort of radiation as the Sun-star, can they be likened to cosmic biological mutagens, or is the answer both? And why do pre-adolescent children seem unable, or are at least not mentioned readily, in being able to cast spells; is it because they currently don't understand the principles of the schools of magic, or that they don't have the ability (not enough magicka/unable to manufacture radiation into useable energy) yet?

Assuming all of this is true, what would happen if someone previously unable to "cast magic" were to show up on Tamriel? Do they gain this ability, or, as mentioned before, is the whole process facilitated by an inherent biological defence mechanism to ensure people aren't just dropping dead like flies after a few years?

What. Science, in my Elder Scrolls? Is it more likely than I think? Or am I just making too much sense?

Aetherial magic, at least. Oblivion magic is a bit different; it comes from the realms. So I imagine it's a bit different (or a lot different) in each realm.

Something to note is that Aetherial (if that's what the word would be) magic works in other realm, not just on Nirn. I suspect that as long as the stars can reach the realm, such magics will work, even if there isn't any large star nearby like Magnus. Oblivion magic, on the other hand, seems to be restricted to stones and enchantments outside of their native realms.

Something else to think about; Welkynd stones grow underground on Nirn; perhaps its unique origin or its proximity to Magnus saturates the very plane with such magics, causing such magic-filled crystals to form.

Magic is cosmic radiation the people use to shoot fireballs from their fingertips and such. Everyone is bathed in it, though sometimes large concentrations of this cosmic radiation solidifies and grows on Nirn or falls upon the land.

Also, anyone can use this cosmic radiation. However, the difference between a master wizard and a peasant is like the difference between someone trying to create Cold Fusion and the theories thereof, and Nextmastermind with his chemistry homework, or Beethoven's ability to write and play music to my ability to play and write music (which is almost non-existent).

There has been some speculation as to souls emitting radiation; the profane use of Shor's soul lead to giant Cancer Monsters and volcanism, and Radiation Sickness. Since souls are made out of magic, there is some point to your theory. However the pure potential energy emitted by Magnus really doesn't, on its own, affect most citizens of Tamriel at least more than our sunlight.

Read cosmology. and Kids aren't mentioned cuz there AREN'T really kids (besides in Daggerfall)

Within the context of TES everyone has the innate capability to learn how to cast magic, most people just don't have the time/money/need to do so.

EDIT: DOUBLE Ninja'd

Another thing to think about; even in TES, plants on Nirn seem to require sunlight. This could explain how plants have arcane properties that can be brought out by Alchemy; soaking it up from Magnus and the stars. Long-term lack of sunlight was what permanently altered Nirnroot, an especially magical plant. And now Nirnroot can even grow in total darkness.

As for plants in the realms of Oblivion, I suspect that while sunlight or starlight may play a role, one must also factor in the magics of the realm; notice how the plants in Dementia are different from, while still quite similar to, plants in Mania.

Well, the princes took some leaking creatia, and used it to create their realms from themselves. As such, I suspect the princes don't necessarily need Magnus as much as Mundus, only for the initial building.

Wait what?

Also read http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Magic_from_the_Sky.

Just a bit too much sense for me, I think.

Where is your source that magic functions differently and has different properties when in the Mundus and in Oblivion? Game-mechanics aside, from a lore perspective, shouldn't you be able to do everything magically that you can do in the mortal plane in the Oblivion planes? And what about pocket realms? Aren't all realms suffused with the magic radiation from Aetherius?

Certain spells granted in the Shivering Isles only work in the Isles. Haskill says that these magics are rooted in the Isles, thus can't be used elsewhere.

All of the realms we've seen are exposed to the stars, I don't see much of a problem, I think that's sufficient.

Now ask yourself if that was deliberate because it's how Bethesda wanted the lore to be, or if it was compromise for mechanical reasons. In other words, lore-wise, Player can leap over a wall of the city and continue on with his journey. Game mechanics wise, Player had to go through city gates in TESIV because cities were interior cells. Some part of me says that Bethesda wanted those specific spells to only be available in Shivering Isles because it would cause game mechanic problems if they allowed Player to cast them any where any time.

Just to make sure we're on the right page, you're referring to these 24 spell IDs? http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Shivering:Magic
I can see how Manipulate Weather would only be relevant to Shivering Isles. But I don't see why "Legs of Fortitude" or any of the summoning spells wouldn't work in the Mundus, lore-wise.

When Haskill says these magics are rooted in the Isles, it sounds kinda like the Levitation Act excuse for not being able to render levitation in the game software. Bethesda couldn't implement levitation and so they created that levitation act to "fill in the hole" of the lore. I'm thinking the same thing was done with the SI expansion pack. But what's said is done. And in a way, it does add more mystery. What other unique magical abilities/spells could there be in other Oblivion realms and/or pocket realms. My question is why does it work like that? When you look at the sun(Magnus) in Shivering Isles, are you looking at the same sun that mortals see from Nirn?

separate thoughts answering seperate questions. I kept them in the same paragraph because the 2 seperate questions were in the same paragraph.

Isn't Mundus surrounded by Oblivion surrounded by Aetherius surrounded by Void?

Maybe not. Mortals cannot comprehend the aedric planets. I'm guessing they have a spacial 4th or 5th dimension, which we cannot comprehend because we're trapped in three dimensions. Ever watch those Carl Sagan youtube videos on the 4th dimension? Pretty fascinating. Maybe Oblivion is right where the Mundus is but on a different axis, like the W axis. Mortals can comprehend the x,y,z axis's but you can't ask us to point to the w axis because we, and Nirnians, cannot comprehend it. Just my two cent theory. And I think the Void exists everywhere, but on the U axis. And the unvoid would just be on negative values of that, crossing the threshold of W axis.

We need a superhero like Proweler to assist us.

When has it been said that we didn't know where the Aedric planes were??? they are within Mundas, but far away from Nirn.

A very large part of TES IV revolved around venturing into Oblivion. So much that the game wasn't named TES IV: Cyrodiil. This continued into the expansion. I think that if they intended for things to work differently in the realms of Oblivion they would have made it that way. Yes, you can use the paintbrush glitch to get over the wall, but that was a glitch; they didn't mean for people to be able to get over the walls.



I'm referring to three spells that cannot be cast everywhere; Manipulate Weather, Sheogorath's Protection, and Summon Haskil; I believe these are the only spells and powers that the PC can use that utilize the magic of the Isles. And let's not forget the Staff of Sheogorath, which can be instantly recharged at where all of these magics come from.


In the vanilla main quest, Martin notes that the opposite (or simply Daedric counterpart) of a Great Welkynd Stone, is a Great Sigil Stone. I believe Sigil Stones have Daedric magic trapped within, enabling them to be taken anywhere and make enchantments that work anywhere. Still, we must remember that the Princes ultimately command their realm's power, and it seems they can bring it to Nirn. Sheogorath was able to change the sky and make flaming dogs fall from the sky, and others, like Sanguine and Namira, were able to grant very unique powers to mortals. Perhaps it requires great power to bring Daedric power to Nirn, or the Princes simply keep a tight enough control on their realm's magics that it's rarely seen outside their realm.

As for Magnus, I do have a theory about the placement of Oblivion.

I theorize that the planes of Oblivion lie out in the void of Oblivion, out there in the sky, like extrasolar planets, and that while Sheogorath's realm is near a star similar to Magnus, Mehrunes Dagon's realm is near a dead star (considering it's the Deadlands, this stands to reason). Not even the Dwemer, with their telescopes, would have been able to see Oblivion planes floating around in the void. This would explain how the realms of Oblivion could exist out there among the void of Oblivion that one can see from Nirn. As for Aetherius, I don't know; it's certainly not accessible either by the Sunbirds or by the same methods used to access planes of Oblivion (explaining why the Mananauts failed to reach Aetherius but seem much more successful in Oblivion-related matters).

Yes, this does require a slightly different interpretation of the Cosmology text. I believe that the infinite masses and infinite distances described are not truly infinite, but so vast that non-portal travel is impossible (or at least implausible). This in turn would open the door for the idea that the stars aren't equidistant, but variably so far away it doesn't matter. And that perhaps the Temple-Zero Society isn't all knowing and infallible. They certainly http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Ancient_Tales_of_the_Dwemer#Part_II:_The_Seed in-universe. Perhaps the "mortal mental stress" is not defining what we visually see, but how we interpret and explain what we are seeing.

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/cosmology

The first one on planets says they appear as planets due to mortal mental stress. I guess we do know where they are but they have an infinite mass of infinite size. Sounds like a black hole or something mathematically similar. Black holes have infinite gravity.




What powers did Sanguine and Namira grant to mortals? You're not referring to the usual artifacts, are you? Those are just custom objects with the usual stock spells/effects added to them if you really think about it.
But you're saying that in-lore, Daedra/Aedra have magical powers that are not accessible by mortals? There is no spell to make dogs made of fire fall from the sky but Shegorath has the ability to give that power to a mortal mage if he so chose?

On a side note, in my fanfic, my character Vedaa was created by the 16 daedra and two of the aedra (Dibella & Mara). With that, would it be lore-appropriate if she were to have unusual and uncanny magical abilities that no other mortals would have? Like using magic to tinker with thermodynamics and physics?

It says in http://www.imperial-library.info/content/morrowind-varieties-faith-empire that in Cyrodiilic legend, Magus has the ability to lend powerful magicians some of his power. I kind of wonder if Gyron Vardengroet from the book http://www.imperial-library.info/content/daggerfall-sage was being lent some of the powers from Magus. Couldn't any god or daedric prince lend their powers to a mortal if they wanted to?




I think of mortal mental stress as being similar to us trying to visualize what a 4-D hypercube, tesseract, looks like, where it is a cube within a cube. In 3-D projection, the inside cube is connected at 45 degree angels to the outside cube. But a real 4D cube has all right angles(an extra right angle to the x,y,z right angles), which we cannot comprehend because we are trapped in 3 dimensions.

Why can't magic just be magic?

Because that's so... boring. The more richness and complexity we can tease out of lore, the better. It exists to sate us, if I may say so, and we should svckle at its teat as much we can.

What you're saying is instead of just making something up you'd rather make something up that sounds like you didn't make it up. Because it's all made up. Even the logic you use to deduce the workings of magic exists only by grace of your imagining it.

But, sure, pseudo-science is a style too, so imagine away. Just don't expect it to describe some universal magical law, because then it wouldn't be a universal magical law.

No, much more simple.
Instead of making something up, I'd like to make something up that's more fun.

Alright, but whenever you tire of figuring out the atomic structure of silicon, you're free to come and build sand castles with the rest of us.

Personally I'd rather stick to the only model of cosmology we know: The Void is surrounded by Aetherius, and there's only one Big Rip from the Void to Aetherius, and that was Magnus's. He was the architect of the friggin world, and therefore a very great spirit. The spirits responsible for the stars were not as great, hence their smaller apertures. Within the Void are all the realms of Oblivion and Nirn, which is the only plane(t) surrounded and influenced by the Planets or Aedra.

It's all a very neat package. And explains why a spell cast in one place generally behaves the same way elsewhere.

There is, as noted, a distinction between Aetheric and Daedric magic. The former, responsible for most magic encountered in TES, is universal and all-encompassing due to everything being surrounded by these rips. The latter is rooted within the immense power of the souls of the Daedric Princes themselves. Shivering Isles spells work only there because they are essentially ways to reconfigure yourself since, as a Daedric Prince, you are your realm.


Also, in the real world, black holes do not have infinite gravity. They follow the same rule as everything else: the gravity felt from a black hole is proportional to the amount of mass it contains and your distance from it. Just sayin.

Maggie farted and tore open a hole in the roof of the sky, and that's where magic comes from.

An Orc told me and I believe it is the Monkey Truth.

We all channel fart energy when we cast.