Being able to turn it off = 110% required.

Pretty much.

That definitely prevents people from hating on you

That wouldn't be dumbed down, that would be [censored].

I'm pretty sure we won't get THAT, at most it would just lock your vision to the enemy, it shouldn't lounge you forward to the enemy if you're too far...

We are having a hypothetical discussion, that if it did work like the first couple posts describe it. We know that it probably wont work like an auto aim, its just for friendly fire. If it did work like the first couple posts though, we would have went from hit detection being determined by stats and the players skill, to just the players skill, to the hypothetical auto aim, requiring almost no skill.

Just some direction for some of the posters.

Magnetism =/= Auto target

They are two completely different things.

Keep in mind as well that Skyrim will have a "slight" magnetism. More than likely we won't even notice it in combat, as its purpose is to avoid allies and to make battles more engaging and less sporadic.

:facepalm: :facepalm: i really hope that its toggleable. if i miss.............then i should miss. if i dont block in time then i should get hit. NO MORE HAND HOLDING!!!

If it's similar to how I imagine and hope it to be, then I can definitely see some good use for it, but I hope there is an option to turn it off. I don't need the game to help me along during a fight.

If your referring to my comments. Then no, that is not what they basically said.

I have to say (mainly because I haven't seen this comment yet), hitting allies was a rarity for me in Oblivion. Before I got it on PC I would often start the quests that gave me companions (The guard in the Oblivion gate in Kvatch, the Jeymane brothers, the useless Everscamps, and Martin all at once) and play on the hardest difficulty. They were my tanks and my mage, and I was often the silent ranger. I would rarely hit them, even with Vanilla Oblivion's cardboard arrows. It honestly is not that hard to avoid companions, and if they beefed up the AI it should be even easier.

I don't agree that it would be dumbed down. Your character doesn't really know whether you are trying to hit your ally or not, so the ally's backside is there, and you press the sword swing or let an arrow loose, what ever shall we do?

The answer, my clumsy friends, myself included, is magnetism. Like BoSStealthAgent said, and like the report i just looked up says, its said to be similar to Assassin's Creed auto targeting, which allows you to tell your character what your intentions are in attacking. I have personally not played it, but since you people have and seem to hate it, maybe it is an improvement on how they did it, and I agree you should be able to turn it off. I would say you are a super twitch-based FPS master in that case. :bowdown: :trophy:

One exception to the rule is that I highly doubt that it will involve arrows or projectile magic. I agree with you FPS fans that auto aim is not so good, and homing fireballs, however cool that may be! But with swinging swords it is a must. Otherwise it would be very difficult for me to RP a sword master with elegant footwork who never misses his foe's beating heart.

I agree with an earlier poster that it is probably to keep the fight animations looking good. You run up to an enemy and are obviously stabbing at the air near their shoulder, and blood spurts everywhere. Instead, you run up to an enemy and the magnetism magically sends your stabbing arm straight towards your enemy, what luck! What a fluke!
It might also be good to push your friends out of the way so you can make a clean hit on the enemy.

I think it should be implemented as a kind of mild glow or an indicator that shows what your character expects to hit, and so it would be obvious that you will run toward it and hit it. This would be especially obvious for rush moves.

To rant further, any warrior will tell you that if you are in a cooperative event, the chance of accidentally skewering your friend is very low. In the fighters guild quests, I always managed to get a few "hey, I'm not your enemy!" messages from everyone. Also, I am not an FPS fan, and have no intention of playing FPS games, even though head shots for bows would be nice.

I don't think that magnetism will be possible to drag your character forward or sideways, once you have begun an attack sequence, a dodge would simply be a dodge, part of the mechanic. If a person side-steps you, you swing and you miss. If they are a tiny bit out of range or too close for the animation, perhaps a small automatic shuffle can be added to slightly adjust your stance when you hit the attack button, but hopefully not after that. Can you just imagine throwing a punch and having your fist magnetized to their face? You would get spun around silly and end up falling all over the person with your hand in their mouth or finger up their nose or something hilarious like that.

No one on this thread has any idea what they're talking about. LOL

Also, apparently everyone on this forum only plays TES or RPGs in general, because no one even seems to have much of a concern for other games. Also, when someone mentions a game that isn't TES or an OWRPG, everyone freaks out and says they hate it, or it svcked. That's just sad, people. :glare:

Also, no one here seems to understand a thing about combat magnetism. Despite it being the topic of the thread.....sigh...

Here - the examples we've been shown: In the gameplay trailer, when the dragon flew over the PC and he turns and reaches up to slash at it, connecting with it's abdomen, that's magnetism. When the dual-wielding character is fighting the sword and shield character, there is magnetism as well. The "draw" that allows his spinning attack move of death to even be aimed toward the guy and stay on target is the definition of magnetism at work. Additionally, the finishing moves of which most people seem excited about (such as the throat-slit and the bandit gut-stab in the trailer), are not possible without a base magnetism, if not a "lock" function. If there was no magnetism and no lock function at all, there would be no way to ensure that your stealth kill didn't simply miss and swing at the air next to the target. Basically, it is the similar to the core of all button activated functions, in that it actually does what you intend as long as you aim "close enough". For instance, imagine feeding as a vampire by aiming instead of a button press with a locked-in animation, and without magnetism....you would have to aim perfectly at your target's throat, and if you missed, you might end up svcking the feathers out of your victim's pillow instead. With magnetism enabled, however, you can aim anywhere around the throat of your target and be guaranteed a proper blood-svcking.

For a comparison example: The exact magnetism referenced for Skyrim that comes from Assassins Creed is simply the players ability to press his attack button of choice and steer the attack to the closest enemy within range that he/she aims at. This also locks on the target after the initial attack (in AC), and allows you to continue to strike the same target for the duration of the battle, however, it does not actually limit you to only that target. For when you aim at a new target in any direction other than exactly at your "magnetized" target, you will switch and attack the newly-aimed-at target instead. Thus this system allows you to flow from target to target, of your choice, when facing multiple enemies, and be assured that you'll actually have a chance of hitting them if you aim well enough.

EDIT: Also, keep in mind the magnetism system (as described) will never attract you toward an ally, nor "lock" you to only enemies. This does not mean you can't hit allies, it just means it is extremely unlikely if not impossible during combat in a group. Obviously, if you engage an ally the game will then employ magnetism for said ally, because they are now treated as an enemy. This means there should be no worry about allies in combat, as they will actually be more helpful now.

For a more abstract example: The origins of modern FPS magnetism were created and pioneered by Jaime Griesemer when developing the first Halo game. This function, coupled with about 4 others, account for the aim assist function that has been prevalent in all shooter games since then. Barely noticeable in most games, it makes for a more enjoyable game experience for everyone playing by allowing more fluid combat and precise exchanges of gunfire.

And finally, there has been NO confirmation of any kind of aim assist for ranged attacks. The magnetism referenced so far relates to melee combat. I suspect there will be a minor magnetism employed to help with target tracking while scanning and aiming, but not to a noticeable degree. Basically, the way it will probably work is similar to Halo's: You move your reticle/aim toward a target, and the magnetism will act as a sort of sticky aim, allowing you to swing your aim to a target, and feel a slight pull to keep you aimed there, even as the target moves. This effect is variable based on the distance from you to your target. The closer you are, the more "sticky" the magnetism will be. And the more distance between you and your target, the effect goes down until it eventually cancels completely.
As for a possible example of the ranged magnetism, take a look at the player tracking the wolf with his bow in the trailer. This could be using a slight magnetism as well, but it will be impossible to tell until we play it. If it will be there, the good news is that it's a benefit to anyone using bow or spell combat. With magnetism enabled, you'll feel a slight pull to keep you "on target". The idea being that the game "rewards" you for aiming well. Because if you don't keep your aim close enough to the target's magnetic center (typically the target's center of mass or head) the effect will cancel and you will probably lose your target and/or miss.

I sincerely hope that clears up some of the confusion. And btw, my source for this info includes a huge article on aim-assist in modern video games in Game Informer, and the behind-the-scenes dev vids and interviews for Halo, AC, and obviously the info we have on Skyrim.

What? I never needed magnetism to slash an enemy from behind.

I hope this optional or we don't have to lead our shots with any spells.

I'm personally under the impression magnetism is being done more so for melee wielders than anyone else. If you ever used a sword, you realize how difficult it is to not hit your ally when they run right in front of you while fighting.

I'm so confused by people thinking that magnetism = hand holding. Did you guys play Oblivion? Were you totally satisfied with that combat? Because magnetism is fixing the combat of Oblivion. That's what it does. For all the massive complaints about how TES isn't realistic enough, you'd think everyone would be behind this, because it's making the game more realistic. If you're actually standing right there fighting someone with a sword, you aren't going to be swinging it around like a crazy person and you're not going to be missing half the time because of depth perception or sudden fast movements of the AI.

This is going to be make combat much more realistic, deadly, and fun!

Yeah, as long as this isn't done too heavy-handidly, I can't see how it could generate complaint.
It should just make combat more visceral and precise.

I completely agree with you that people are being silly.

For one, "dumbing down" and "hand-holding" seems to be a new generic complaint with no backing on these forums.
Secondly, people still don't seem to understand that magnetism =/= auto target. Skyrim will also use a "slight" magnetism, meaning most probably won't even notice it. The only purpose is to make battles more engaging and to help avoid allies.
Thirdly, many AAA first person games use magnetism of some sort.

Sometimes, I get the feeling some members of the forums would actually refuse crutches if they had a broken leg, as it would be considered "hand-holding."

Magnetism is confirmed?

Yes. Yes it is. Todd confirmed it a month or so ago with one of the gaming magazines. It is a "slight" magnetism however.

"Dumbing down" a game? Do you need to have the mental capacity of a rocket scientist to play a game? :blink:

The introduction of "magnetism" to attacks improves the combat and helps avoid allies in the heat of a battle. It's actually a necessary addition now, especially since we'll be able to assign certain people as companions in the game.

I'm gonna have to see it in action, but I'm honestly not that concerned, it will accommodate for flaws within the medium, that wouldn't be there if you were actually there with your body.

And as some have somewhat pointed out hat isn't dumbed down. That might be easier, but easier does not equal dumbed down. Saying dumbed down is just a insult directed at something people don't like without them having to come up with any actual reasoning. At most this is reducing the difficulty for a reflex, dexterity oriented task. That has nothing to do with your mental prowess. It is like saying the introduction of boxing gloves dumbed down boxing. No, it made it so punches did less damage, increasing survivability and reducing the punishment boxers took. But it has nothing to do with their intelligence, outside maybe they take a bit less brain damage now. You want to be against magnetism, that is fine. But back it up with actual reasons, not a low rent ad hominem.

Heck just a basic, I like games that challenge my reflexes. I find that to be an important part of video games, if I did not intend to challenge my reflexes I'd rather be playing a turn based game or table top game. Therefore any thing that reduces the skill needed to make an attack will lessen my enjoyment of the game. I'd much rather deal with a bad AI getting in the way of my attacks than having a system that makes all my attacks easier to land.

I'm on the fence, mostly because no one really possesses the faculties to explain how magnetism would work. How does it work?

We really don't know. Magnetism varies from game to game.

Here is a example of a bad version of magnetism. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dym6_OHEiwg

I played ME2, and that game was awesome. I don't really recall anything like that happening to me, but it's not like it's very difficult to simply move the scope back over to the canister. Snipers aren't stuck in a fixed aim.


But I still don't know how magnetism works.

http://chzb.gr/bik5Y0