They only had aim assist for the consoles, so I never encountered it.(and yes given the 300 hours I've put into the game I think it is awesome as well) And while yeah he can move the cross hairs after the assist screws the aim on insanity at least you can only stay out of cover lining up a shot for a very short time. And consoles move cross hairs a bit slower than mouses move, so it can get ugly in bad situations. Now I think it still rarely effected most people, but there are games where the magnetism's bad effects occur more often. On the other side I never noticed it while playing Halo, and yet they kind of developed the idea. Something like that was so smooth of an integration, I can't see people complaining about it.

I think magnetism is your aiming sensitivity decreasing when you move your crosshair over an opponent.

Thank you for your thorough explanation. I guess it might come naturally to some people, but as for myself and many other http://www.projects193.com/Chinkonsung/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/the-forum-trolls-demotivational-poster-1210635423.jpg, magnetism is just a concept that cannot be explained. Does anyone really know how magnetism works?

In a more serious address of the point, I do think there should be a slight target magnetism for console versions of the game. It's naturally more difficult to aim with a controller. PC versions of the game don't really need it, because with a keyboard and mouse anyone can achieve precise control over the finer points of aiming. The way Halo Reach handles it has been good in my opinion. It's very nice and subtle.

I found aiming with a controller easy enough.

No it wasn't, if someone runs across your crosshair you lost control of your aimming.

I got to play Duke Nukem Forever at PAX. There were a lot of things wrong with the aiming in that game that really warrant the inclusion of a magnetism system. The sensitivity was so high, you couldn't really aim at all. Controller sensitivity is another thing that should be easily modifiable, but there are some people that like to be able to play with fast controllers (to quickly turn around) yet still be able to shoot to kill. There's a difference between a slight lock to a target and an instant guide to a headshot forced upon you every time you zoom to aim.

I wish there was a way to describe it better, but until they release the info we are flying blind. Magnetism has been used by developers to describe a wide variety of aim assist functions. From snapping to a target once you get really close to aiming to them, to auto targeting the closest enemy(including full 180 spins, to locking onto the closest target that passes through your cross-hairs, auto-missing friendlies, a close enough counts even without grenades etc. How it will be implemented in game we don't know yet. All we have is they called it slight. But what slight means to them, might be major to someone else.

This is why I refuse to get up in arms about this, I've played games where I didn't notice it, and I've played games where it frustrated me since it frequently had me targeting something I did not want to shoot. Until I know more, it isn't worth getting upset over.

Yes, it was very annoying. I always turn of aim-assist. I don't want ANYTHING, especially a computer, taking control of my crosshair. I've had games where I died because an enemy I wanted to kill was on the right/left of another enemy, so my crosshair passes over the other guy I don't want to kill, slows down to a crawl, then I die because I couldn't get it over my intended target.

Yeah. It'd be nice if we could actually see some first-person aiming in action somewhere down the road. Until then, it seems a little unnecessary to debate the merits of aiming magnetism if we don't even know how aiming will work.

Plus, this game is supposed to support third-person more than all the others. How will that work from a third-person perspective?

I was referring to a finishing move, not just swinging a weapon. Would you like to have your aim be slightly off and stand up from a sneaking crouch and slice the throat of the air instead of your target? To even contemplate finishing moves, melee magnetism must be in place. As for leading your shots, we always had to and we always will. Unless you want an actual ranged "lock-on" system which keeps you from ever missing....which probably won't happen in TES.



Really? Did you even read my first post? If you're looking for an explanation of magnetism, including the specific AC version Skyrim will use, I made an exhaustive list of examples and other points already.

Not trying to be a jerk, btw, I just don't see how there can be questions about something that (I think) is easily explained. Keep in mind, though, ranged shooter-style magnetism and melee magnetism are not the same thing. As I said earlier, melee magnetism is confirmed, and we don't know about ranged yet. I personally suspect both are in based on the game meachanics that have been described and the gameplay footage from the trailer.

Also, I wouldn't say Reach did a great job for ranged magnetism. I think Battlefield does it better, because it's barely noticeable unless your enemy is about 2 feet away. I think that logic could be applied to the melee magnetism in Skyrim to good effect.

I think if you sneak behind someone and it does a finishing move it will be animated like the assassinations in Halo Reach. I remember someone in the trailer getting His throat slit or something. Yeah I know we always had to lead shots but I don't want to if theres reticule magmetism.

Hopefully they will do it like that :celebration:

If you cant see that morphing into your enemy for an insta hit is dumbed down hit detection, then there's nothing else to say. Its not an ad hominem, its right there in front of you. Your anology about boxing gloves doesnt even fit. Lets put magnets in the gloves, and implant magnets into the foreheads of the boxers , so every hit connects. That's not dumbed down boxing? You'd be turning hit detection into an interactive movie. Not even Fable games are that dumbed down when it come to hit detection. Its a good thing that its probably not going to work like TC suggested, that would be super dumbed down. Why would anyone want to insta morph into an attack for a sure hit. thats takes away the stats and the real time reflexes of it. Someone else said that you should morph into sneak attack back stabs so there's not a chance to miss, but there should be a chance to miss anything. Hopefully it will only be for friendly fire.

I very much agree with you, and I just wanted to make the clarification that there will be some sort of magnetism like AC's locking for us to be able to do the stealth kills like the one from the trailer. Just to initiate the animation, of course. Like Reach's assassination initiation. Also, like chainsawing in Gears. Very basic magnetism.

So, what you're saying about not leading shots....do you mean at close to medium range, or long range as well? Because I certainly don't think we'll be able to pull off epic long range bow shots without some leading and a heavy dose of arc. As for spells, I would expect you'd still have to lead a small amount for fast moving targets, but not much else. Again, see the wolf/bow scene from the trailer. That seems to keep the bow on target close to the wolf's magnetic center. I would love having this basic type of magnetism for bow, spells, and of course the melee as well. I think we'll be very pleased by the improvement.


EDIT: @Xarnac - Don't worry so much, it'll make you upset, lol. The way it's been described is that it will be an assist for you when you aim PROPERLY, because if you don't aim right, you miss. The magnetism well help you stay on target and not hit allies, yes. That's all that needs to be said.

I know it probably wont be dumbed down hit detection, were just having a hypothetical debate on if it did work like TC suggested. Basically no way to miss. He thinks that it wouldnt be dumbed down and I disagree.

Both really because leading shots will be annoying for me if my reticule slows down when I'm trying to move it to the side of my opponent.

No problem with a hypothetical debate. It just doesn't need to be taken so seriously, because the system will not be like you guys were discussing. The OP for this thread is way off-base, and it's making people wonder strange things.

It will have SOME elements of AC's magnetism, but will NOT be like having a guaranteed perma lock when within range. Not even remotely.



I gotcha. Like we were discussing though, I think any form of ranged magnetism they implement will not interfere with leading. The auto-aim assist in Battlefield only causes issues with leading at about 4 feet away. Which is ironic, because at that range you could just use melee, and there really is no need to lead with a gun. So, as for Skyrim's spells and arrows, I think leading will have to be implemented in the same way, at about 20 feet or more away for bow shots, and probably about 10 feet away or more for spells. Keep in mind, that is obviously for fast moving targets only. The effect cancels if you move your aim behind or in front of the fast-moving target, meaning it's all you if you have to lead them, and the effect will only kick in once they are not only close enough to your PC, but also when you have your aim within about a foot of your target's center of mass.

Example: Wolves flanking you in a pack formation at 30 feet away must be led with either bow or spell. The wolves are too fast to use the magnetism alone, because the effect will cancel if your aim gets behind their magnetic center(center of mass). Therefore you will have to lead slightly due to their speed.

Example: A giant walking perpendicular to your LOS at 50 feet away should require almost no lead for bow or spell. The giant is slower when walking, therefore the magnetism will help keep you on target while you aim close enough, and no lead is necessary.

And you know this how?



Oh, okay.

I don't know, I think it'd be hard to engage in combat if your hand is being held.

And who would be holding it?

This.

I never got the impression it was some kind of melee aim assist. Just that if an enemy and and ally were close to you while swinging, the weapon would gravitate to the enemy.

Yep. Luke is right. As am I, and Dremora Lord, etc. There are A FEW people here who do not understand the magnetism we've been told about for Skyrim. At all.

Because it isn't. Magnetism is not lock-on targeting like GTA.

I just disagree with the term dumbed down in the context of simplifying a reflex based task. That has nothing to do with dumbing down, dumbing down does not equal make easier. Even if it is make easier in a really dumb way. Something can be the dumbest mechanic in history and still not be dumbing down the game. Unless you can explain how in some way actual targeting requires intellectual mastery that heavy handed magnetism does not. It might require better reflexes, better perception skills but intelligence has no bearing on this issue, so dumbing down is the wrong term. It is just one of the current this is bad buzzwords and it gets misused for everything that means the game was streamlined, cuts out a step, is easier in anyway. Buzzwords are lame in the office, they aren't any better here.

I feel like misusing literally so siegewar can point out that I don't really mean literally.

To everyone that doesn't like Magnetism, play OB and get some companions and go clear a dungeon. THEN come back and contribute to this thread.

To people who play alone; Without, it doesn't really feel like your hitting anything with melee, magnetism is a very subtle effect in which it makes it feel more like you're actually hitting the guy. No, you won't teleport ten feet, you'll just smoothly move in a couple inches.

Thank you and have a nice day.

Wouldn't my allies end up being glued to the enemy in that fashion?

I DON'T LIKE THIS MAGNETISM D:

No, I apologize. I was trolling a wee bit with a http://chzb.gr/bik5Y0. It was an attempt at a joke, but it's lost on deaf ears if I'm the only one who understood the reference

But at the same time, I will contribute legitimately to the discussion. My point remains that I would simply like to see how the aiming system in this game will work, how often one's ability to aim is a factor, and how a third-person perspective will handle it.

It's also important to consider that magnetism =/= lock on. It's simply a slight attraction to compensate for the poorer precision of controllers. In principle, it's ok, but you need a smart system to properly distinguish what target you're after. That is what's wrong with the Mass Effect example shown (where it didn't recognize the explosive canister as an appropriate target) and apparently Halo Reach, where the magnetism can be diverted if another enemy runs across your line of fire (though I've never experienced this myself).