I've been on these Lore forums for quite a while now. Read a fair amount of TES texts, but don't claim to understand all of it, even after a few years.



My question is; what are the main themes of TES Lore? Is there anyone who can outline the major themes that are present in the TES world, and define it?



I've written some stuff in the past, but even if I managed to stay clear from contradicting Lore, I think I completely missed the point because I failed to understand the meaning of the texts rather than the content.

duality. most things have an opposite, but those opposites are really the same when it comes down to it. the interaction of these opposing forces brings about various types of change.
repetition of events. stuff is repeated, doing stuff like it was before can be used to influence and get divine pow3rz.
myth. and the power thereof. if people believe hard enough all kinds of stuff can happen. repeating myths leads to power.

um, thats just a few things of the top of my head. very rough.

Spears take all night to clean.

Thank you, Lady. That was the kind of thing I was looking for. I'm sure there's moar, though.



If you're stupid enough to hire an Argonian Maid...

So, there were these gods and they creates this world and stuff happened in this world.


Key words:

- Emperor
- Clones
- Elves
- Orcs
- Dragon
- Daedra
- Aedra
- Nine
- Bacon

Also, unlike many fantasy worlds, TES is in shades of gray: we'll never know exactly how their world was created, or the full nature of the TES gods, or exactly what happened at Red Mountain. Each observer in the TES mythos has his or her own take on events.

A good point, but probably a bit too subtle for someone like me.

Moar! Moar!

Wasn't there something with the gods and their incarnations?

Love.

That's true, the Elder Scrolls always likes to have different perspectives on different affairs, and never tell you exactly which one is right.



I assume that's supposed to be a joke, because I don't see too much "love" in the Elder Scrolls, not anymore than other fantasy settings, anyway. And it doesn't seem to be going out of its way to deliver some pseudo-philosophical message related to love.

it sure does. To be more specific... http://www.imperial-library.info/obscure_text/5th_era_loveletter.shtml
To sum it all up:
I ARE ALL WE.

God is Love.

COME TO THE HOUSE OF WE.

God is Love.

ONE WORLD IN SPIRIT I AM.

God is Love.

Warrior-Thief-Mage trinity + evil outcast.

You see that in constellations (with the Serpent), in pantheons (Tribunal + Dagoth Ur), in factions (three guilds + DB), and so on.

"Give birth to yourself and become a new man..."/CHIM/The Player is God is the Player Character

i will argue that the player character has nothing to do with TES lore, since our roles in it are limited to what the devs say we did and we are always subsequently erased from record.

i will argue that the player character has nothing to do with TES lore, since our roles in it are limited to what the devs say we did and we are always subsequently erased from record.

On the other hand, without player characters the events that take place in Lore wouldn't have happened. There wouldn't have been a saviour that helped Martin during the Oblivion crisis. Dagoth Ur wouldn't have been defeated by the Nerevarine.

Player characters define the Lore.

EDIT: Small edit, maybe I can re-phrase the above a little. Without the player characters, the events of each TES game - and the Lore there-in - wouldn't move forward. Without us as the Nerevarine, Dagoth Ur wouldn't be defeated, as no one else in Morrowind could have become the Nerevarine - because, as you say, the developers limited that to the player characters only.

I don't think player characters are "erased from record" - more like, not recorded. We decide what truly happens to them.

The Main Theme/s or if you like the thrust thereof evolve with the choice for each release of the addition of new and the loss of old devs. Also in each release there are works by specific devs (art, music etc included) that define what can be presented effectively. Likewise it is very difficult to define many of those themes except as attributes of the devs themselves and their interaction. Basically the elder scrolls lives and breathes through that and because various aspects are done very well, often transcending the normal effectiveness and applications of the base media.

That's a very good observation about the player character. We do take part in those events - and we experience them in what appears to be a key role, yet in the greater theme we are by nature of being witnesses.

Here are a few themes:

With the exception of Arena (please correct that) each release has centered around a Province (that was true even in Daggerfall where you could travel through two Provinces) and therefore the struggles of a single race at a certain time in the History of the Empire. The realities, beliefs and societies of that Central Race are explored through the eyes of its own Literature and Culture as well as through the Literature and Culture of various other Races in book form, in roleplays small and large and through your travels throughout that culture.

You get to experience everything through the eyes of any race you choose and as stated through a multitude of skills & occupations and by taking part in and being a member of various institutions. And as a special bonus you get to kill a lot of monsters and just about all the people in that Province as well if you want to.

There is maintained an ambivalence and contradiction in the presentation of various events and aspects of the various interacting cultures that allows freer reign to the imagination than might otherwise be the case.

We do not know for sure what happens next and how the future will view the posterity that we have experienced because until the next release we do not know who the new devs will be and so cannot count on the input of old devs to remain unchanging - and that is very hard to live with.

For the importance of a witness ref Jean Paul Sartre

youre confusing the player character (what ever we pretend to be in game, including our race, name, etc.) with the person who we play (the champion of cyrodiil, the nerevarine). the later are their own independent lore personalities, and we really dont influence their actions at all. we have no say in what happens to them outside the game. i could have killed everyone in cyrodiil and never closed a single gate: but that didnt happen in lore. it is our privilege to experience the events of TES games, but we do not have any real say in them. these heroes come to advance the story, and we just happen to be along for the ride, but when our ride ends they continue to exist and perhaps even define the history of tamriel (the nerevarine going to akavir is a prime example.)


1991: daggerfall. battlespire. the mobile games.

The very first words of Morrowind would already disagree with you:
"Each event is preceded by Prophecy.
But without the hero,
there is no Event."
-Zurin Arctus | the Underking

Also, I'd suggest having a look at the 36 Sermons, with special regard on "Ruling King".

Edit:
The Nerevarine going to Akavir is what it is: a rumor. Nothing more. There are no definite passages which mention what/or that something happened to a hero of any of the games, with the exception of Cyrus, of course, but that one is a definite person.

Your "point" of doing anything you want is somewhat moot. There must be something basic thread which drives the story further or there would be no story at all. That's why the "main quest" is fixed as to what concerns the outline of what happened. However, so far, no one has mentioned any specific details on what exactly the hero did besides fulfilling the respective main quests. There is no mention of the hero joining guilds or anything, so that is up to the player to define.
What I said above is backed up firmly in accompanying lore, the most obvious would be:
"a prisoner born on a certain day
to uncertain parents [...]"

once again, i maintain that there is a fundamental difference between the "hero" of games and other events and between the "player character," that is my lvl 15 acrobat named Aesling who is a member of the thieves guild and accidentally lost one of those Mythic Dawn books in some dungeon and therefore cant finish the q uest.

The lack of Alignment System is a huge plus.

I agree on the difference between "player character" and "hero". But the original point remains the same, the player character is not defined. The "hero" is only so much defined as he or she completes the respective main quest.

When I'm playing, the main theme always ends up being: "Killing things."

We could say another theme of TES is a world in decay. The epic battles and demigods or avatars are all in the past; entire races are gone (the Dwemer) or distant and exotic (Akavir). The Tribunal are a shadow of their former selves; recluses.

When you go to various factions in "Morrowind" to become the hortator, half or most of the people you speak with don't take you seriously. "You want to become the hortator and defeat Dagoth Ur? Sure, friend. Give me enough septims and the title's all yours." The Nerevarine and, later, the COC are like throwbacks to earlier eras of glory.

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Although it's not spelled out in the games, a major theme of TES, as given to us by MK, is that it's a consensual reality (as in cyberpunk works). MK presents the Creation as a dream in the mind of an amnesiac deity (AFAIK); the godhead has been fragmented. I'm not saying this well, but the lore veterans know of the many discussions on this topic.

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Lastly, Albides once pointed out the influence of Mircea Eliade's ideas on TES, especially the idea of Eternal Return. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_Return_(Eliade)

We could say another theme of TES is a world in decay. The epic battles and demigods or avatars are all in the past; entire races are gone (the Dwemer) or distant and exotic (Akavir). The Tribunal are a shadow of their former selves; recluses.

Or rather, conflict. After all, the Mundus is the Arena.

Although it's not spelled out in the games, a major theme of TES, as given to us by MK, is that it's a consensual reality (as in cyberpunk works). MK presents the Creation as a dream in the mind of an amnesiac deity (AFAIK); the godhead has been fragmented. I'm not saying this well, but the lore veterans know of the many discussions on this topic.

The Elder Scrolls universe is a universe within our own, portrayed to us through games. Godhead, which encompasses everything in our universe, now has another universe- hence, it's fragmented. That's why Vehk can exist "in multiple universes"

I think that's what your saying, could be totally wrong though.

Hows about conflict and decay - this is the end of a Kalpa after all. But I wonder how the events we have just witnessed be seen in the next Kalpa.

That amnesiac deity you call AFAIK has a lot to answer for then. Musing through the consensual aspect in-world - there are groupings of beings in Tamriel and the mundus who also agree to do things together which is what makes each society and that is certainly an aspect - which rather contradicts your conflict theme in true ES style. Though you are not really looking at that ...

Ok - I guess that there is one theme that presents itself from that - how mortals are said to affect (even create) the Gods through belief - and that is not only consensual but also reflexive

I would say choice has a big part to play, after all if you don't choose the main quest, then nothing much happens, the world doesn't move forward. Only by choosing to act does the player become the Hero.

On a side note in my personal version of the saga the reason the hero is never named is because of a herditary curse. At the start of Arena, Ria Silmane says she has managed to hide the players identity, so I figured that since she's dead she can't undo the spell and my hero has to take on temporary aliases because his true name is hidden, and this is passed on to his son and grandson (Morrowind and Oblivion respectively).