Dude, I totally agree. I'm gonna be seriously annoyed if TESV gets crap thrown in for casual gamers and main stream zombies. TES is a game for a specific group of people that should be groomed for a specific group of people.

I will accept some modifications that would tweak the game for people who are trying to get into it. But I want the option to turn all that junk off.

The crazy thing about all this pandering to the masses is that if they really went to town and made a game as deep as Daggerfall etc but with todays technology and improved on the gameplay even more they would surely have a winner that would gain accolades from all over and give them the reputation they deserve.

It is sad to see such a company fall the lowest common denominator like they have been doing.

I think however, that they are looking for a good balance and perhaps when they find it, they will be able to build around it and bring some of the depth of gameplay back and still make it appealing to the masses.

I think the future of TES games, if they want to please more people, is to go the way that some modders for Oblivion have done with their overhauls, start making the game modular where you can turn on and off various aspects of the game to suit your gamestyle, I think the hardcoe mode for Fallout: NV is a step in that direction and I hope they expand on it.

Casual gamers can choose to have their easily done game (not everyone has hours to spend playing every day but still want to get the enjoyment of finishing the game) and hardcoe guys can choose to have their deep and lengthy game and no one has to be left out.

This is soooo true. Well put indeed!

I am annoyed by it, but I even even more so annoyed by people just declaring everyone who has stupid idea 12 year olds. It is CONNECTED to age. There's alot of older gamers out there who have the same [censored] ideas. I hate it when people say ooh that's so stupid are you 12??

It's not connected to age and don't try to connect it to age. When I was 12 I was playing warcraft 3, sacred gold and titan quest. Not CoD or anything of the sort so the whole 12 year old = maintstream is just a flawed statement.

I know there are people who look at this thread, skim through and have a variety of thoughts on this discussion but do not post.

Please understand the participants aren't a group of elitist or know it alls or whatever sitting around a campfire in a frigid advance, grumbling about things not going their way or strictling blaming one group entirely for the worlds problems, the reasons for why certain aspects of this topic are full circle.

The people for submiting their demands.

The company for submitting to those demands within reason as best they can while still obtaining oh lawd load of money.

Those Demands that are met pleasing some and pissing off others.

The Section of people unhappy with the changes calling out again.

The Other Section of people barking at the unhappy people.

The Company being force to pick something to focus on while still making as much money as possible.

And the Cycle continues.


However another poster had a point, bring the foundation of Daggerfalls and Morrowinds best, combine it with This age technology and more fluff.

Floor everyone and shut the silence.

If Beth wants to make a quick buck in the short term, then they can go ahead and appeal to the unsophisticated "casual gamer", but if that's the way they go, they'll feel the pain in the long run, as I won't be buying their games anymore (I suspect I wouldn't be the only one). The games Beth has made have one primary factor that I keep coming back to play them again, and again. That being replay value. I might be wrong, but I don't think unsophisticated games have a lot of replay value in the long run. Don't get me wrong, I don't want an overly complicated game either, but if done right, a game needs more sophistication as well (a good balance), so I don't feel like I'm back in kindergarten again.

If Bethesda were to cater to the long term fans of the series rather than the biggest market there is a chance that they would make more money on account of the fact that they would be able to sell the long term fan an expansion pack down the line as well. Which wouldn't be the case if most of their customers were casual gamers who wouldn't be willing to pay for an expansion.

Elder Scrolls is the sort of series that doesn't require a compromise to be inviting to new players.

It's perfectly possible to hop into a TES game and run around whacking people in the face, naked, if one so wishes. It's equally possible to roll a perfect character and power game through the MQ in 5 hours. One can immerse oneself in complicated magic and crafting systems, or one can pick up a humble cudgel and start mindlessly tearing through the closest dungeon.

The lesson? We should stop fearing the influence of mainstream elements in our favorite series. Bethesda prefaces every TES instruction manual with the exact reason why their gaming philosophy works. TES can be played by anyone, in any way. Bethesda knows well enough how to balance their games to acheive the largest possible appeal without alienating their fanbase.

Seriously age=/=stupid. I'm 15. When I was 8 years old, I was a serious starcraft player.

Doesn't it get tiring to bash "casual players"? You've got only yourselves to blame if you guys buy newgen shovelwares like Assassin's Creed: Brotherhood or COD: Black Ops...

as long as we give in, they will interpret it as we like what they are doing.

But but I own neither games........how do you interpret that now?

No it doesn't really annoy me, Skyrim won't be something completely different from the rest of the series. The only thing I am slightly worried about is that there is a small chance that Skyrim will only have limited, or even zero modability. Mistakes in games are always made, but extended modability of the game makes me forgive a company almost all of them.

Because let's face it, pure vanilla Oblivion is total crap. The thousands of mods out there make it one of the best games though!

Why doesn't one of the devs just hop onto this thread and deliver a message like "Everything will be ok, the Elder Scrolls series is not being dumbed-down, you can stop panicking now" It would be really nice if one of them did that.

True that. I think every age group on here will have to admit that their generation is for the most part is full of BS and rather stupid. Stupidity is not age specific.



if you read the meet the Devs threads, you would probably be quite optimistic.

Things like Beth sticks to their guns when it comes to making games they want to make, and not pandering to the xbox kiddie who want guns or something silly. And M'aiq the liar has had a few things to say about pandering to those kinda of ideals.

These guys are making good games, not trying to please noobs.

your mental capacity is the same from the day you're born to the day you die.
that being say, I feel like it needs to be repeated that the problem is not 'casuals'
the problem is trying to make an rpg appeal to people who don't actually like rpgs.

yeah. I agree there. cept when the hardware starts to fail.

But I do not think that is happening. Beth have the 1st person sandbox rpg on lock down. They basically rule the genre atm. The Devs have said that the producers, which is where any kinda pressure to makes changes like that would come from, know BGS have it on lock down, and they seemingly let Todd cast his spells without major interference.

The threat...is http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1152262-what-from-a-different-game-you-want-in-skyrim/ :confused:

I don’t think Beth would do it. They love TES too. They don’t want to make a game like that.

In fact, now that they’ve made a name for themselves, I bet they’ll take the kid gloves off and make Skyrim more Morrowind then Oblivion.

These kinds of posts are no less annoying than mainstream annoyances. Perhaps you see where I'm going with this, or perhaps not because this forum is so drenched in these type of posts that the people posting them don't realize just how annoying it is, as what's commonplace goes on in an unrecognized state.

Guns & Multiplayer = The Early Death of ES Series.

In a way TES fans should be happy they have a mainstream brand. It beats the alternative. I'm a Forgotten Realms fan and that never went mainstream because Atari and Interplay never tapped the console market with a real RPG. It was always fake action RPGs like Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance that had little roleplaying and less action. Now its like Hasbro finally realized Atari hasnt done a thing with the license and they are suing them for breach of contract. Hasbro should have never offered an exclusive deal.

Oh brother, another angry gamer. :violin:


I didn’t see where you were trying to go with it because you failed to to actually articulate a point.

(Hey I think your mom just said dinners ready)

I shouldn't need to articulate a point, yet if I do, as I said, it's due to such widespread use of such phrases to begin with. My point has something to do with the words "constant", "belittlling", "Oblivion", and "fans".

Everyone has their points and faults Seti, why focus on a particular group.

I focus on that particular group because that particular group has attempted to make me feel mentally handicapped for having my own preference and now, that Skyrim nears, it rises back up to intolerable levels. I wouldn't have to focus on it much if it didn't plague the entire section. This thread started with discussion about mainstream annoyance, but the radical opposite of that is no better if it isn't worse, so why not focus on it? At least the mainstream annoyances don't place themselves on high thrones with golden scepters in their hands.