I'm willing to bet that someone will come up with a workaround and that it won't be the only option. :shrug:

If this is positively the case, and I have not yet checked the new GECK update, but,

Unless the intent is to make mods that create exterior areas be expected to exist in .esm form and not .esp - - it seems best for the workflow to have the GECK automatically make objects being added to exterior cells in .esp files be persistant refs. Right now, for every piece you add, you have to click a checkbox in the item's edit window. Also, I have not seen a batch function for setting objects as persistant.

Also - - - there's the bright-white-skin-on-NPCs issue. It seems related. Unless adding new NPCs will be expected to only happen in .esm mods and not .esps, that's gonna wanna be looked at.

I really, really hope Gstaff meant that just as a personal "yeah, you cna do that till we fix it" and not him passing along official word.

And how will we do that, seeing as modifying the exe is illegal, and that looks like the only way to do it?

It's called patch downgrade. Or rebuilding everything into an esm (which still leaves navmeshes out, anyone knows a workaround for them on 1.5?).

It's a choice between paying you and getting borken steel support + achievements.... or having mods (which is far more content than any dlc you'll be able to create) and working vats, for free. guess what'll be the choice?

From what I see, 1.5 has nothing to do with broken steel, besides achievements, so hopefully it will work with fakepatch. Achievement remover, here I come.

Well, we have one. Move the DLC files to the data directory, and use the fake patch. But that's not right, or would it sound right to you to not use any kind of technical support patches the developer of a game delivers because they ruin one of the most basic selling points of their game on the particular platform?

I think that an issue with navmeshes issue exists in 1.4 as well.... I have a big pile of symptoms here that are starting to come together and look like that.

I read something Quarn said to where there is some way to put a navmesh into an .esm that's different from anything I've tried. I want to try that sometime and see if I get a true, persistant, working navmesh out of it.

Usually I'm pretty easy going and try to sympathize with developers and cut them some slack because PC development is fraught with all sorts of issues. But this is a pretty fundamental problem and makes all the mods using external cells useless.

I was planning on getting Anchorage, The Pitt and Broken Steel all at once, loading up my favorite mods, and then launching a new game. But you're right - I'd rather have mods than the DLC's, so right now I'm not buying anything. I'm going on vacation for a couple of weeks in another week, so I'll wait until I get back to see what Bethesda does. But if the current situation is unchanged, I'll stick with the mods and Bethesda will have lost 3 DLC sales from me. That's the only way I know to make my voice heard.

I'd say it's the top/only selling point. The thought of playing unmodded fallout/oblivion/morrowind makes me shudder.

Maybe they want all exterior-modifying mods to live as .esms instead of .esps.

I'm pretty sure it was an unintended byproduct of a modification they made to allow esms to modify exterior cells correctly

Maybe so, but to do so after all these mods have been made is more than a bit disruptive.

im getting crashes when saving and the only mod im using is the unofficial patch.

That's weird.

I uploaded a new version of my Rivet City Apartment with the dog set to persistent and that seems fine. However, I've had to uncheck Big Blue House, Top of the World, Hole in the Wall, Tenpenny Extension and a couple of my WIPs from my Data Files list because they add stuff to the exterior. I'll upload fixed versions (all ext. refs persistent) ASAP. (They shouldn't be too horrendous, since most only add minor additions such as pot plants to the exterior.)

However, since reverting to a previous save, without those mods (or any that affect exterior cells) I'm not getting any more crashes. By that, I mean that I played for an hour or so with the mods plugged in after installing version 1.5, got tons of crashes, went back to the last save before installing the patch and unchecked all the exterior-affecting mods, and then resumed playing with - touch wood - no issues.

...which is probably adding, moving, removing stuff to close gaps in the terrain or navmesh, all those things. Did not take a closer look at the readme, but I think I can almost guarantee it does. ^_^

If this is the way they meant for it to stay, I'll end up splitting Phalanx into an .esm and an .esp. The .esm will have world changes in it, including probably interior cells. I have a suspicion that navmesh is bugged-out in .esp files, no matter the cell type, and this includes versions prior to 1.5. Moving to .esm may be the cure for it. Phalanx will be alright with that part.

But that skin tone problem in .esp files really seems out of place. I'm not sure I see a good way around that one. At a minimum, it would ruin savegame compatibility to move Malcolm and Deisha into an .esm (I tested this).

Why even bother supporting 1.5? I'd say 90-100% of us will be using fakepatch now.

Does anyone know if the patch runs fine with fook overhaul and xfo overhaul kit?

In other words the community has to clean up Bethesda's mess for the Nth time. :facepalm:

I have to agree with col here, there's really little reason to support patch 1.5 on mods. It breaks a lot and adds nothing, and if it ever gets fixed in a future patch, the changes to make the mod compatible with 1.5 would be useless and counter-productive (sort of like the 1.5 patch).

and is this fake patch comptable with the new dlc broken steel? and does fook overhaul and xfo overhaul have problems with the new patch?

My own line-up of mods as Phalanx 0.96 is put together isn't killing me with 1.5 loaded. So, I'm kinda getting to have the good parts of what's in 1.5.

On the negative side - -

I have to do a fix involving a work-around for a different, weapon-dupe bug. This bug existed in 1.4 but seems to impact 1.5 harder than it did 1.4. Video on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMwve_xFG38 .

And then there's the skin color on Deisha. I'm gonna give it some time and see if bethesda fixes that. That one belongs working in an .esp imo. That seems plain broke with no good reason I can imagine to be left that way. http://www.finhosting.fi/~fallout/screenshots/RidiculousSkin.jpg .

I'm not gonna move anything to an .esm that wouldn't be easy to move back. And actually 1.5 adds nice stuff, I have a couple posts in this thread already as to how its working out for me.

Tell me about it... I use enclave commander a lot, and the follower upgrades are nice... I really hope fakepatch can remake them...