[Jade Barnes-Mackey]

Or you can use fake patch, and erase the issue without the other horrible bugs

But then I don't get the improved enemy and follower fight AI. And I get horrendously crowded by my followers after using teleporting doors.

[Matthew Aaron Evans]

But then I don't get the improved enemy and follower fight AI. And I get horrendously crowded by my followers after using teleporting doors.

But, didn't you create a command JUST for fixing that problem?

[Marine x]

I can only hope that some bethesda employees feel rly ashamed when reading this here.

Can't believe they added in another potentialy game breaking bug.

[Cool Man Sam]

I can only hope that some bethesda employees feel rly ashamed when reading this here.

Can't believe they added in another potentialy game breaking bug.

Potentially? Ha...

[krystal sowten]

But, didn't you create a command JUST for fixing that problem?

Yes. But it was only because I didn't have access to the executable itself to fix it in the exact way which they now have. Their fix is superior to mine.

The things I'm talking about, like the AI changes in enemies and followers and the fact that teleporting doors into add-on cells now works, are important to understand for Phalanx' development. These are things that will not be changing, even if this persistant-ref deal is fixed.

I have been playing the heck out of 1.5, I want to become familiar with its quirks and effects and strengths (and weaknesses if it has them). I already found and modified one function (out-of-combat first-aid stimpack) that needed to be done a different way. To turn down the opportunity to playtest the new version wouldn't make sense for what I do. And it so happens that if I was only a mod user, it wouldn't make sense for me then either, as my exact mod line-up isn't trashed by it.

[Amber Hubbard]

No real surprise, how long did it take them to fix Morrowind and Oblivion? Or did they even fix those, I stopped playing those games shortly after getting them because of the many frustrating issues. We shouldn't have to resort to these offbeat measure to get the game to work "ok", pouring over tweakguides to try and find some settings to monkey around with is not cool, and should not be near mandatory. It's disturbing to see them release 2 alright but overpriced (IMO) DLCs, and still not have fixed VATS - you know the game mechanic they made such a huge deal about. Disheartning.

[Phillip Brunyee]

Potentially? Ha...

Well, you *could* not play with mods, so 'potentially' is right.
Yeah, that is as in '*could* refrain from using the biggest advantage F3 has on the PC, directly supported with tools like the GECK'. Kind of hard not to get depressed now. <_<

[Wayland Neace]

Well, you *could* not play with mods, so 'potentially' is right.
Yeah, that is as in '*could* refrain from using the biggest advantage F3 has on the PC, directly supported with tools like the GECK'. Kind of hard not to get depressed now. <_<

That's why god made Vicodin

[Eilidh Brian]

That's why god made Vicodin

guess thats what ppl mean if they talk about game addiction.

[Vickey Martinez]

That's why god made Vicodin

Nah, that stuff might be good for House, but I'd rather drink some St. John's wort tea. ^_^
Does anyone have a clue about how much a savegame would bloat per added reference, how many you'd use, say, for a mod that add's a new outdoor village, and how much additional RAM the game would have to use?

[chloe hampson]

So me using,
MMM
FOOK
FWE
WMK
FOIP
UFOP
Phalanx...
I will be unaffected?

[dell]

So me using,
MMM
FOOK
FWE
WMK
FOIP
UFOP
Phalanx...
I will be unaffected?

No... you'll be VERY affected...

[daniel royle]

bethesda. you really messed this up. i guess mos't people here, buyed the game for mods. and you broke it. THAT'S RIDICELOUS!!! :flame: :flame:

[Jessica Raven]

bethesda. you really messed this up. i guess mos't people here, buyed the game for mods. and you broke it. THAT'S RIDICELOUS!!! :flame: :flame:

Great Scott! jacobdb is so fuming mad he spelled ridiculous wrong! Now thats ridiculous! :wacko:

[jasminε]

well, i am really mad. (btw ridiculous)

[Ice Fire]

well, i am really mad. (btw ridiculous)

So are a lot of us. I, personally, was hoping I'd never have to use Fakepatch. So much for that. Now i'm ALSO gonna have to wait for someone to release an unofficial patch for broken steel, so it will work properly with fakepatch. (as it's been stated, it needs 1.5 for a new command. Luckily, our friendly neighborhood geniuses think they know how to fix it very easily.

[jessica sonny]

There's another way to handle this whole thing.

TGBlank had mentioned the mechanics behind it, and I had been talking with Elminster about it, and I tested what he made and followed his directions pretty much.

He's now made a new version of FO3edit that adds in the needed ONAM records for navmeshes whenever you save an .esm. And then, he walked me through a process where a single .esp is turned into a co-dependent .esm/esp pair.

From what I can tell, when you do this process to your .esp, all of the weirdness caused by both 1.4 not handling navmeshes in .esps right, plus 1.5 making non-persistant-ref items vanish, is gone. Everything that I knew to test worked perfectly in-game.

What I tested was:

- - - 1.5 issue: Disappearing statics problem if you add a static. With my .esp/esm pairing combo, I unset as persistant refs the megaton campsite in my mod, and the items would not disappear on me after i left and then fast-traveled back. Checked several times.

- - - 1.4 - 1.5 issue: Disappearing navmesh in-game for player-added cells. I verified that this problem does not exist when this esm/esp pairing is done. It positively exists in all lone .esps that try to do this.

- - - 1.5 issue (don't know about 1.4): Ignored navmesh for player-made .esms that attempt to replace a Fallout3.esm navmesh. Because of Fo3edit now automatically popping the ONAM records in where they are needed, this problem is overcome.

- - - 1.5 issue: white skin on mod-added NPCs. Problem does not exist.

- - - It's not savegame compatible except by hex-editing the savegame file. But Eliminster said that Timeslip could maybe make a feature to FOMM to sorta do this on demand to savegames, creating this sort of compatibility for specific savegames.


There's a going back-and-forth process for creating the .esm/esp pair. I can't really type it all out right now. It belongs in a tutorial. Basically, the process causes your single .esp to be split into two. it becomes an esm that contains the things you added to the game as brand-new, and an .esp that contains stuff that you are changing that was already in the game. And, importantly, the .esp has the .esm set as a master. The process uses both the GECK and FO3edit to make it happen, going back and forth a couple times.

If 1.5 doesn't get these things fixed on its own, for some of us, this will be the way to proceed. In addition to that, understand, it FIXES the whole player-added navmesh problem. You will simply not be making a successful level that the AI can be expected to navigate repeatedly, in either 1.0 or 1.5 of Fallout3, without using an .esm.

Elminster is going to put up the version of FO3edit that handles the ONAM adds properly soon. And someone should do a tutorial on this thing. I'm not an expert at it, I've only been walked through it, once, I'ma newb at it.

I will write this tutorial for you if you send me the raw steps.

If you've seen my http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=6107 http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=4800, you'll get a sense of the kind of tutorial I would write for this.

An easy tutorial on how to make the conversion will help the community through this nightmare.

Let me know your thoughts,

M

[Carlos Vazquez]

@miaximus and quarn....
wow.. that sounds very promising.. and a big amount of BS due to software patches... ultimately.. mod orders ridden with simple quests featuring .esm's and .esp's.. cluttering the average modder/advanced modders load order---- guarantees it is going to look like a pile of clutter...
BUT, miaximus, your .pdf's are amazing, and quarn understands the inner-workings of the game. sounds fantastic to me
Still...
ahh.. soo much reading....
bleh blah meh

anyways..

i am still running the 1.5 patch at this moment...
going to reinstall, and add the Fake Patch
http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=4635

too bad i didn't think bethesda would overlook something like this, and i didn't have a backup.. shrug.. learning more every day.....

although..
I am messing around with the 1.5 patch...
and i noticed something.. hopefully someone else can verify..
if you blow up megaton
the awesome explosion is gone.
can anyone confirm besides me??? (it may be mod related, but i have no idea how... my gut tells me it's the 1.5 combined with modder created .esp's... er it obviously is.. i think ?gahhh??)
:ahhh:

regardless, the patch ruins modding.... yes... yes it does.. you can tell me whatever you want. -_-

are they boycotting modders? or are they crazy?
I love bethesda games nonetheless... no other game to my memory is as fun and as freely mod-able.
but this does svck

[Darlene DIllow]

I imagine it will make everyone's life easier if the word is put out to not patch to 1.5 until a solution is found.

I agree fully, if people don't want a headache and the patch is not needed, then why not warn them in an appropriate place.

There are people using 1.5 without trouble. That advice isn't really accurate to put forth as a global warning to all.

No but it would be to most of the people viewing that site.

I have crashes in about two thirds of my favorite mods, it is a nightmare untangling my savegame with v1.5 so I just gave up. It is early days though and if we can assume this was an error, everyone makes mistakes, let's give them a bit of time to fix it.

But then I don't get the improved enemy and follower fight AI. And I get horrendously crowded by my followers after using teleporting doors.

http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=981958

Fixes doors for followers.

[Killah Bee]

anyways..
i am still running the 1.5 patch at this moment...
going to reinstall, and add the Fake Patch

I just place fallout3.exe 1.0 over 1.5 patch- work fine so far with fake and unofficial patches. Much better then with 1.5 or 1.4
Load last save, make in console
Set UF3PVATSFixOff to 1
and that's all.
about 10 hours of gameplay and one only CTD after reload

[lexy]

i use the same. works fine. i guess that will be the temporerly solution for it.

[Steve Fallon]

Right.

I've had this crash on save issue since yesterday after installing 1.5. After looking around, I noticed my savegame files expanded by a few .TMP files that normally shouldn't be there. What did I do? I deleted those and started up the game again, so far the issue has been fixed; though it of course may very well happen again over time, but I've managed to play about 2 hours without crashing on save, and I press quicksave -a lot-.

Note, do back-up your savegame files before attempting to delete the .TMP files, just in case.

[Nany Smith]

As far as I know, those files result from the save process being interrupted before it is complete. If you experience a crash while saving, I would expect a *.tmp file to result from that save attempt.

Cipscis

[evelina c]

Bug #1: Saving Crash
Non-Persistant creatures\NPC's placed by mods will cause the game to crash upon trying to save after visiting and leaving the area where they are in.

Affects: esp's only, esm's and interior cells are unaffected.

Steps to reproduce the bug:
1) Create a new plugin, place a Brahmin (CrBrahmin) at GirderShadeExterior and save the plugin.
2) Activate the plugin, start Fallout 3, load a gamesave and COC to GirderShadeExterior.
3) Fast travel to some place far enough away say Megaton or just COC to megaton01.
4) Try save your game and enjoy the crash!

I just replaced the Brahmin with a NPC (extra created a new Form in G.E.C.K.) and: no crash.
So this point is not that drastic, in my opinion.

[Laura Samson]

I just replaced the Brahmin with a NPC (extra created a new Form in G.E.C.K.) and: no crash.
So this point is not that drastic, in my opinion.

By default a newly created NPC has "No low level processing" unchecked which means if you place that NPC it will be a persistant reference thus no crash. As I said "Non-Persistant creatures\NPC's".