[Tyrone Haywood]

From a modding perspective, there are major bugs in the new patch, this thread is intended to raise awareness of them and find solutions.

Continued from the previous thread:

http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=985364

The OP's first post made by Quarn:

Bug #1: Saving Crash
Non-Persistant creatures\NPC's placed by mods will cause the game to crash upon trying to save after visiting and leaving the area where they are in.

Affects: esp's only, esm's and interior cells are unaffected.

Steps to reproduce the bug:
1) Create a new plugin, place a Brahmin (CrBrahmin) at GirderShadeExterior and save the plugin.
2) Activate the plugin, start Fallout 3, load a gamesave and COC to GirderShadeExterior.
3) Fast travel to some place far enough away say Megaton or just COC to megaton01.
4) Try save your game and enjoy the crash!


Bug #2: Vanishing\Resetting Objects
Non-Persistant objects (statics ect) placed by mods will vanish upon loading them the second time. If you changed an already existing object in Fallout3.esm then it will reset to the default position (state, as it was in Fallout3.esm) upon a second loading.

Affects: esp's only (seems to include everything even navmeshes), esm's and interior cells are unaffected.

Steps to reproduce the bug:
1) Create a new plugin, place a static of your choice outside Vault 101 (Vault101Exterior) and save the plugin.
2) Activate the plugin, start Fallout 3 and load any gamesave.
3) Fast travel to Vault 101 (you'll see the object that you placed) then fast travel to Megaton.
4) Fast travel back to Vault 101 and you'll see the object is now gone.


Bug #3: Skin color on new NPC's defaults to "white" no matter what

Affects: esp's only, esm's are unaffected.

Steps to reproduce the bug:
1) Create a new plugin and create a new African American NPC.
2) Place that NPC into the game then save your plugin.
3) Load up a gamesave and pay a visit to your albino African American NPC.



If you're using mods you really SHOULD you roll back to v1.4 (or even better v1.0+fake patch) right away, Bethesda has messed v1.5 up real good... :flame:

[sas]

I think you meant to say continued until they patch their patch. Because until that happens i don't think anyone will be satisfied.

By the way this NPC bug apparently doesn't affect Caucasian or Hispanic for me. Unless its the fact that their in an interior cell.

[Dewayne Quattlebaum]

I think you meant to say continued until they patch their patch. Because until that happens i don't think anyone will be satisfied.

By the way this NPC bug apparently doesn't affect Caucasian or Hispanic for me. Unless its the fact that their in an interior cell.

The original poster was someone else but I can verify some Caucasians are effected, at least the ones I have tested.

My last comment was in the previous thread, in response to companions more smoothly moving with you to new areas.

This is extremely easy to reproduce (I already do) without the patch though.

Is there anything else in it worth having?

If we can get broken steel to work without it, then I won't be modding everything persistent, that would be insane really to do to someone's save game. Not to mention the navmesh being broken still further than it was in 1.4.

In regards to the persistent references bloating savegames, what I was seeking personally was another answer which didn't involve using esm's.

[Connie Thomas]

Let me understand this correctly...

Bug #2: Vanishing\Resetting Objects

Non-Persistant objects (statics ect) placed by mods will vanish upon loading them the second time. If you changed an already existing object in Fallout3.esm then it will reset to the default position (state, as it was in Fallout3.esm) upon a second loading.

Affects: esp's only (seems to include everything even navmeshes), esm's and interior cells are unaffected.

If I have taken the time to build a massive exterior cell that is roughly equivalent to the Mason District or L'nfant Plaza with well over 7,000 references placed. I'm talking massive clutter, items of every kind from the game and very few of them are persistent.

Does this mean that my huge exterior area is now doomed unless I Completely change every object to be persistent?!?

A Very worried (M)

[cheryl wright]

Let me understand this correctly...



If I have taken the time to build a massive exterior cell that is roughly equivalent to the Mason District or L'nfant Plaza with well over 7,000 references placed. I'm talking massive clutter, items of every kind from the game and very few of them are persistent.

Does this mean that my huge exterior area is now doomed unless I Completely change every object to be persistent?!?

A Very worried (M)

only to the fools left using 1.5

Most of us have given up hope and moved to fake patch. (meaning you don't need to worry, that much. Unless you, for whatever reason, WANT to be compatible with 1.5)

[Kevan Olson]

Let me understand this correctly...



If I have taken the time to build a massive exterior cell that is roughly equivalent to the Mason District or L'nfant Plaza with well over 7,000 references placed. I'm talking massive clutter, items of every kind from the game and very few of them are persistent.

Does this mean that my huge exterior area is now doomed unless I Completely change every object to be persistent?!?

A Very worried (M)

Yes that is the case. I wouldn't bother changing them all to persistant though because i don't think anyone who actually uses mods will be using v1.5 due to its hidious bug. And with any luck Bethesda will patch this soon and not break something else.

[Code Affinity]

don't worry about compatibility with 1.5. Everyone and their dogs are going for 1.4 and 1.0.0.15 and fakepatch. If future patches solve the 1.5 grave issues, make compatibility for them, but not for 1.5

Also, 7000 refs made persistent = horrible savegame bloat.

[Nathan Maughan]

quick question what is this fake patch i keep reading about? Is it compatible with the new dlc? I have patch 1.4 can i still use the fake patch? what exatcly does fake patch do?

[rebecca moody]

quick question what is this fake patch i keep reading about? Is it compatible with the new dlc? I have patch 1.4 can i still use the fake patch? what exatcly does fake patch do?

http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=970907

[Laura Shipley]

Is it compatible with the new dlc?

We can't tell, as it's not out yet.

BUT it's safe to assume that it probably is, as nothing but the achievements seems to be related to broken steel.

[Bigze Stacks]

fakepatch applies the esm tweaks done since 1.1. It is made so 1.0.0.15 fallout can have all the esm changes of 1.4.
Original reason was to avoid the vats bug that plagues 1.1-1.5, but now with 1.5's madness, and since most are re-installing to remove patch 1.5, it has become #1 choice for most.
As long as you do a little ini tweak, it is compatible to all the dlcs released so far.

[Damned_Queen]

fakepatch applies the esm tweaks done since 1.1. It is made so 1.0.0.15 fallout can have all the esm changes of 1.4.
Original reason was to avoid the vats bug that plagues 1.1-1.5, but now with 1.5's madness, and since most are re-installing to remove patch 1.5, it has become #1 choice for most.
As long as you do a little ini tweak, it is compatible to all the dlcs released so far.

I feel sorry for JustinOther... He was so looking forward to finally retiring fakepatch... so much for that.

[Tom]

The original poster was someone else but I can verify some Caucasians are effected, at least the ones I have tested.

My last comment was in the previous thread, in response to companions more smoothly moving with you to new areas.

In regards to the persistent references bloating savegames, what I was seeking personally was another answer which didn't involve using esm's.

I have one african-american (Deisha) and hm, well whatever "Gary" is (hes a clone of the game's actual "gary clones"), and I think Malcolm is base hispanic. They are all affected.

It's harder to notice on the "white" races. I had to do a double take to notice that pale-ass Gary had the problem, whereas Deisha is one of those "oh my god" moments.

[Chloe Yarnall]

so i would have to reinstall fallout 3 again, right. Well thanks guys for the fast answer

[Rex Help]

Let me understand this correctly...

If I have taken the time to build a massive exterior cell that is roughly equivalent to the Mason District or L'nfant Plaza with well over 7,000 references placed. I'm talking massive clutter, items of every kind from the game and very few of them are persistent.

Does this mean that my huge exterior area is now doomed unless I Completely change every object to be persistent?!?

A Very worried (M)

Hang on a sec everyone, hang on k (as Jericho would say).

If it's really left this way, this may be a case where the sections of mods that create world areas, or even interior cells, get those world-areas moved into being an .esm, and that's that. One wouldn't need to mass apply persistant refs in that case, I don't think?

Mods that modify pre-existing navmesh have to have something set on that navmesh in order for the original one to not override it. Don't ask me what - - Quarn knows.

I'm about to run some tests on navmesh in internal cells in an .esm, will get back to peeps on what I find.

[naomi]

Converting this into something productive:

Do I simply then need to turn my mod into an ESM?

Thanks,

M

[Lalla Vu]

I agree that if this is a change they meant to make, it would quiet people down if one of them would explain the basics of what's behind it to us.

I think it's possible that some of us aren't giving them the benefit-of-the-doubt that they should get, but it's also human nature to be like that sometimes. No accusing finger being pointed, here. We don't get to know those people directly so we don't get to learn how good they are at this stuff, on a personal level, and that vacuum makes a difference in people's impressions.

I'm personally sorta trusting them - - I've seen awful problems with navmesh in .esp files - - perhaps the best fix was, in their perspective, to jump over to .esm. I can live with that.

(white skin on Deisha however needs fixed !!!!!).

[Captian Caveman]

Hang on a sec everyone, hang on k (as Jericho would say).

If it's really left this way, this may be a case where the sections of mods that create world areas, or even interior cells, get those world-areas moved into being an .esm, and that's that. One wouldn't need to mass apply persistant refs in that case, I don't think?

Mods that modify pre-existing navmesh have to have something set on that navmesh in order for the original one to not override it. Don't ask me what - - Quarn knows.

I'm about to run some tests on navmesh in internal cells in an .esm, will get back to peeps on what I find.

Tarrant,

Thank you,

Miax

[james reed]

I agree that if this is a change they meant to make, it would quiet people down if one of them would explain the basics of what's behind it to us.

I think it's possible that some of us aren't giving them the benefit-of-the-doubt that they should get, but it's also human nature to be like that sometimes. No accusing finger being pointed, here. We don't get to know those people directly so we don't get to learn how good they are at this stuff, on a personal level, and that vacuum makes a difference in people's impressions.

I'm personally sorta trusting them - - I've seen awful problems with navmesh in .esp files - - perhaps the best fix was, in their perspective, to jump over to .esm. I can live with that.

(white skin on Deisha however needs fixed !!!!!).

There are issue with .esm only. Unless the fundamental way plugins work has been altered.

[Marta Wolko]

Converting this into something productive:

Do I simply then need to turn my mod into an ESM?

Thanks,

M

I'm experimenting with that now... not entirely sure yet, but it may be the case.

But also, remember that .esm files load high in the load order automatically.

In Phalanx' case, I cannot make it all an .esm because lotsa mods conflict with some of Phalanx' content. I will end up with an .esm and an .esp, is how it looks, for what's in mainfollowermodule now.

If you're editing an external cell and have changed the navmesh, there's something extra you need to do to your navmesh to make it override fallout3.esm's. But me being a newb I don't understand just what that is.

[Loane]

But also, remember that .esm files load high in the load order automatically.

I thought if you use FOMM you can make it load whenever. even last, if you want.

[Tamika Jett]

ARGHH!! Why didn't I check here first?? I'm so sick rolling back and/or uninstalling and/or reinstalling and/or cleaning and/or loving/hating this game. I swear this is the last time. Dangit! no its not! :banghead:

[Betsy Humpledink]

I thought if you use FOMM you can make it load whenever. even last, if you want.

TGBlank told me that even with that, the .esms load high, and I think I saw what he meant when I used FOMM the other day.

[Jerry Jr. Ortiz]

TGBlank told me that even with that, the .esms load high, and I think I saw what he meant when I used FOMM the other day.

You're right, I just tested it. moved fallout3.esm all over my load list, and it remained 06 the whole time (the whole time being when it was mixed in with the esps)

[Carolyne Bolt]

I thought if you use FOMM you can make it load whenever. even last, if you want.

ESM's always load first, despite the load order FOMM displays. Also, any and all masters in a plugin's file header are automatically loaded whether you check them or not, by the game, FO3Edit, and the GECK. Sometimes, if an ESM won't load where you want it to, you have to change its attributes manually with http://www.petges.lu/.