[louise hamilton]

I'm another that will not play FO3, or any of it's DLC's (even though I paid for the game, AND all of the DLC's) until this problem get's fixed. With that said, and it's been said before plenty of times, just LET US KNOW something... please Bethesda, any word would be great. If the answer is that there will be no fix or patch for the patch and we, as Modders, are left to figure this out ourselves (which is an absurd notion, considering the G.E.C.K. and hosting of mods IN BETHESDA'S FORUMS) then whatever. It'll piss most of us off, but the ones that remain will at LEAST be able to start figuring out a workaround. I mean, be reasonable... This problem effects most PC users, PC users that paid for the game and DLCs, and breaks a considerable amount of people's games. And seriously, I'm not the only one that feels this way, WE ALL DO! All we ask is for you to be fair and tell us something. We did our part and paid for the game, now you do yours. Thank you.

[Kelvin]

I'd just like to say thanks to all of the wonderful and talented members of the FO3 modding community trying their best at fixing Bethesda's giant mess. I wish you all the best of luck!

[Manuel rivera]

I'd just like to say thanks to all of the wonderful and talented members of the FO3 modding community trying their best at fixing Bethesda's giant mess. I wish you all the best of luck!

And I'd like to thank Bethesda for not pulling the plug on modding future games (which they give us freely for buying the game) over comments like this.

[Setal Vara]

And I'd like to thank Bethesda for not pulling the plug on modding future games (which they give us freely for buying the game) over comments like this.

I second that. I had posted a gripe about v1.5 and removed it 5 minutes later realizing how useless it was.

Comments like that are unhelpful, ungrateful and useless. It falls into the same line of useless comments when people say, "This svcks I'm leaving!". (as if that will accomplish Anything? Like anyone here will Care if someone leaves because they are angry with the game?)

By now Bethesda's moderators have skin like titanium to such comments, and in general I think cull the bad ones pretty quick.

My big hope is that Bethesda will continue with the same core Engine as they did when moving from Oblivion to Fallout3, and simply improve on it. That way all of us modders who have spent time learning the TES Construction Set and the GECK can continue with them.

M

[rolanda h]

I second that. I had posted a gripe about v1.5 and removed it 5 minutes later realizing how useless it was.

They should give consumers some information. Like they know the problem exists and are working on it. Instead, the only message I have seen is that mods are not supported.

Finally, allowing us to mod the game helps them as much as us. Look at the unoffical patch for example.

*shrugs*

To reiterate, all I want to know is that they know of the problem and are working on it

[Francesca]

I have a question about the "persistent" vs. "non-persistent" issue so forgive my ignorance. Why would a newly created NPC or building or item be created at "non-persistent" to begin with? What is the difference between the two? And why were items labeled "non-persistent" to begin with? What items would you label one vs the other? Just curious?

[Andrew Lang]

I have a question about the "persistent" vs. "non-persistent" issue so forgive my ignorance. Why would a newly created NPC or building or item be created at "non-persistent" to begin with? What is the difference between the two? And why were items labeled "non-persistent" to begin with? What items would you label one vs the other? Just curious?

See http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=988202 thread, it will explain the difference at depth.

Read the last response from SaidenStorm

They should give consumers some information. Like they know the problem exists and are working on it. Instead, the only message I have seen is that mods are not supported.

Finally, allowing us to mod the game helps them as much as us. Look at the unoffical patch for example.

*shrugs*

To reiterate, all I want to know is that they know of the problem and are working on it

Agree 100% with you - but still take their side in that all this takes time. If you consider that they just had massive problems with the Broken Steel DLC which they had to address, and problems with the XBox version they had to address (both immediately), and who knows what else. They DID indicate that the thread was forwarded to the developers, and others have confirmed that the devs are following the thread - I don't think we could ask for more, and nor will they respond to our gripes for information - it is likely they don't have a confirmed answer from management as to wether this will cause a new patch to be spun.

Believe it or not the process for determining a course of action on something like this can take some weeks. The devs have to anolyze, confirm and provide recommendations to management, which have to balance the stuff on their plate and other business factors, and decide if they can spin a new patch or not. Assuming for the moment they do decide to spin a new patch, it then has to goto project management and all sorts of planning done on what will go into the patch, and then do the actual Coding of the fixes. After that it goes to QA, and with all the DLC's and some mods (assuming they are testing a few now) - this could easily take 2-4 months to filter down to a new patch.

Could they communicate this better? Yes, but for reasons we do not understand, they cannot or will not give many updates on this stuff.

M

[Kevin S]

See http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=988202 thread, it will explain the difference at depth.

Read the last response from SaidenStorm

M

Thanks, that was very helpful.

[Eddie Howe]

I didn't see this in the forums, where'd it come from and when? Cannot find it either with searching.

I don't know i'll ask him for a link.

[Causon-Chambers]

And I'd like to thank Bethesda for not pulling the plug on modding future games (which they give us freely for buying the game) over comments like this.

Yeah, I have no problem with those who are unhappy and say so, but folks who are apparently here just to vent their spleen detract from the board's readability.

A couple pages back someone asked about a list, comprehensive or otherwise, of which popular mods cause problems. I saw no responses to this request. Does such a list exist? There are a bunch of mods, particularly the unofficial patch, that make a large number of changes, which may or may not include placing nonpersistant NPCs. Does anyone know if the unofficial patch causes problems? If so, does anyone know of a patch for the patch that undoes those changes? I realize this would effectively unfix bugfixes, but I'd rather have the game buggy and playable than crashing whenever I save. The unofficial patch contains so many fixes that simply removing it isn't really an option, even if I could disable it without breaking anything (which may or may not be the case).

[jason worrell]

I mean if Tarrant can find a bug and he knows what he is doing more than most people, what exception might of caused it?

I think that sometimes, I know less about what I'm doing than people expect. What happens is though, I'm persistant as hell about some things. You can only try but so many things and think for so long before you eventually have enough information to make something work the way you wanted it to.

I don't recall anything about ESMs not being handled right, but .esps apparently started to act mixed up since at least version 1.4, or maybe it has been since the very beginning. As of 1.4, navmesh in .esps in at new, interior cells is messed up, and navmesh in .esps in both new-interior and pre-existing-exterior cells is mixed up in 1.5.

Broken Steel is nice btw (using 1.5 to play it), and they've done nice things with Super Mutants DPS and looks-wise. Speaking of that one who packs that special laser gun and he does look different from the others, I had to look at it in the editor to get a GOOD look at it though. That weapon of theirs hit pretty hard when you're on the wrong end of it (one of those bastards actually managed to kill me). And the new power armor has a clean, classic look to it.

[Emily Jeffs]

If all that disapproval of "complainers" in the last few posts, was directed towards my previous post, I'm sorry... But it was misguided. I never meant anything mean spirited towards Bethesda, or demanding, or angry really. I work in IT, and I'm very understanding of these issues around bugs. My post should not have been taken as something which Bethesda would take offense too, or anger them towards the modder community.
I'm sorry if that's how it sounded... I wasn't going for that.
(But again, we DO pay them. And paying costumers can't really be seen as ungrateful, as long as they aren't rude. At least to a minor extent, money = gratitude.)

I thought I made it quite clear that the whole point of my post was simply that they shouldn't blow the community off, when discussing such bugs.
I was not complaining about the bugs, but rather the lack of any comforting "we're working on it" announcement. When something like this is discovered, is that too much to ask? Otherwise, look at all the confusion, frustration, and misinterpretations that result! >_<
The process of fixing these bugs, doesn't need to be so "top-secret", there is no need to hide whether they are working on it or not. And I can't understand why such a bug would be intentionally left in, because it has effectively shut modders out of the option of using things that wont clutter up save files. That's pretty important, if you ask me.

Yes, I was blowing off steam... but I tried to direct it appropriately, and in the least offensive way I could possibly do so. Or so I thought.
I DID go back and remove a few frustration-motivated parts of my last post... Caffeine does weird things to you. lol

I LOVE Bethesda games, and would personally thank them everyday for making them, if I could! They occupy a good chunk of my free-time and effort, and mean a lot to me.
That is why I continue to be a paying costumer! So I never want to seem ungrateful!

[Nauty]

I've been curious... do the skin issues also appear with edited vanilla NPCs? (for example, if I altered Star Paladin Cross)

[Blaine]

I've been curious... do the skin issues also appear with edited vanilla NPCs? (for example, if I altered Star Paladin Cross)

Could anyone confirm or deny this, as it is an interesting question that might help identify the cause.

[El Goose]

no, i only had it with modded npc's like daisha's from phalanx

[Rude Gurl]

no, i only had it with modded npc's like daisha's from phalanx

Even if the vanilla NPC was modded itself? (Say its location was altered or some such)

[i grind hard]

I dont see what is wrong with being angry at bethesda, is it so wrong to expect a working product? persistant npcs, ok thats a different issue as it concerns modding and all, i see not getting angry at them for that, maybe annoyed but not angry. But even without anything but DLC and the 1.5 theres still alot of crashing issues and no quicksaving, am I suppose to be thankful they broke part of the game?


The sad truth is, only in the game industry is it wrong to be upset at them for breaking the game. If this was Microsoft Office and a patch broke it, you can sure as hell bet there'd be angry people and that is okay moreover Microsoft would also be releasing a patch a day or 2 later with a apology.

[TASTY TRACY]

Even if the vanilla NPC was modded itself? (Say its location was altered or some such)

i don't know, i only know that new npc's from mods have this bug.

[Robert]

Hiya,

I thought I was going to be one of the lucky few with no problems updating the Geck , my problem that I've seen and it's the only one so far is some of my enclave meshes are now red if you go to look at them in the preview window also some others as well in game there fine. and all these were fine prior to the update I reinstalled the Geck with no update but still have problem it's like when you have a incorrect texture path which these are all vanilla textures and meshes no custom stuff.

As I say that's so far the only bug I've found everything else seems fine

Cheers
CJ

[Code Affinity]

Well if Betheda wants me to choose between buying their DLC and playing mods, they just might come out on the losing end of that choice . . .

Right!

The mods are more important for me, than one last simple DLC with only worth a couple of hours of gameplay, and some no-need-for-them-overpowered items.

And for modders -- do not act too fast. This bugs must be fixed, or I will stuck to V.1.406 and a fake patch. I refuse to use such a buggy Executable. It crashes all 1/2 hour, things are vanishing, and saves are crashing. NO WAY.

[Neil]

Fake patch works with the 1.406 patch? I thought you have to use 1.0.0.15 to use fake patch?

[Ashley Tamen]

Even if the vanilla NPC was modded itself? (Say its location was altered or some such)

Phalanx changes the base definition of all of the regular followers due to adding packages to them. And atm, none of those regular followers have the body skin tone issue. It's only followers whose base definition is formed within Phalanx-MainFollowerModule who have that problem.

Moving Phalanx-MainFollowerModule into being an .esm caused the white body skin issue on those introduced NPCs to stop happening (Phalanx is not released in this form, it was just a test).

[Jessica Colville]

I'd just like to say thanks to all of the wonderful and talented members of the FO3 modding community trying their best at fixing Bethesda's giant mess. I wish you all the best of luck!

And I'd like to thank Bethesda for not pulling the plug on modding future games (which they give us freely for buying the game) over comments like this.

I do agree, but Bethesda definitely generates more revenue by making there game's moddable <<--(I don't think this is a real word). I have read numerous times that folks got the game just so they could mod and others mod more than they play. It's in Bethesda's best interest to support modding with there games not only for the money but it creates more interest and longevity for the game.

Fallout 3 - GFWL = Better customer happiness

[Chenae Butler]

Fake patch works with the 1.406 patch? I thought you have to use 1.0.0.15 to use fake patch?

I inadvertently installed 1.5. Using the Fake Patch, I've completed the Pitt and started Broken with no problems. Things do seem to move more smoothly without the Unofficial Patch so I've dropped it, but I've not seen any problems with my game in about 10-12 hours of playing.

[cutiecute]

I do agree, but Bethesda definitely generates more revenue by making there game's moddable

Still though, I for one, find it suspicious that a company with a vested interest in flogging people DLCs [i.e. "Offical" Mods] suddenly come out with a patch that, while it is required for playing their newest [and some might say, most interesting effort] which extends the game past a Finite end etc, also "unfortunately" has the side effect of making most if not all User made Mods [often superior to DLCs re. imagination and their sheer quality and scope] unplayable.......one such example off the top of my head....Witness GTS and the sheer breathtaking imaginative scope and Audacity of vision, an ENTIRE PLANET waiting to be filled with modded-in world spaces, all user made and a "Motorised" travel system to connect 'em all......and now tell me Beth ain't worried by "the competition" and didn't [quite conceiveably] deliberately Jigger something in the Patch to eliminate the supposed "threat" or might just be a little "incompetent" and hyave overlooked removing something "unfortunate" that creates the same effect.......

......especially given how vocal Customers are regarding being "Refusniks" about buying the DLCs at all 'til the Game Patches are better/FOSE etc are usable/dozens of bugs and things get "fixed"and so on [to the extent, I suspect, that their anticipated sales figures are not being met]........seems very suspect and dodgey indeed.

EDIT
I mean, sure, in the past with TES etc there were times when new Patches "broke" some Mods which needed to be re-made etc.....but c'mon Guys, really now,given the climate re. sales etc, ALL USER MODS suddenly won't run with yer shiny new patch.......like I say, very, very suspect.