Can you guys make this work? You obviously failed in Oblivion and Morrowind, and it's not a hard thing to implement, balance wise.

I think it's stupid to have the longsword as your backstabbing weapon of choice. A dagger should have a huge backstab multiplier, while being inferior in reach and base damage compared to the longsword.

So if your sneak attempt fails, you are left with a slightly inferior weapon in frontal combat, but a successful sneak attack will yield much better results. The situation in oblivion is that you're always good with a longsword - stealth or frontal combat. I won't even go into the Morrowind 2-handed stealth attacks..

well i would lik this to be put in, but it would need balancing to keep from exploits. and yeah the dagger needs somethin to mak it more useful.

What exploits? I don't understand how can one exploit a big multiplier of a single weapon type. It's very simple mathematics with precise variables.

There was a picture of someone backstabbing a guy in the Game Informer mag.

Actually, if you have read gameinformer, there's a picture of someone (maybe player) backstabbing with a dagger a dunmer in a Splinter Cell style. It looks very realistic.

there is already a confirmed perk in game informer, it increases dagger sneak damage.

that does make a little bit more sense, if you sneak up behind an opponent with a long sword and is successful with your sneak multiplier then you should cut the guys head off!
OR if you have a dagger then you just slice his throat.

Do you really think that a dagger could do more damage than a longsword? As I said in other tread, the difference in a stealthy attack with a longsword should be in stealth penalty not in the damage bonus.

depends on the muliplier as long as its not insta kill everythin then sure that be great. (i jus recently played a rogue in dark messiah which as an insta kill back-stab move which is what i did the whole game)

Disagree. If your system was implemented, then daggers would still be useless in the end because your stealth rating would eventually let you backstab with anything. And yes, I really think that a dagger could do more damage than a longsword, even though this is NOT about realism, but about item viability.

edit: no I don't have game informer...



Since the system will be damage based I doubt there will be instant kills like in other rpgs.

Seen plenty of old films where the musketeers sneak up on guys with their rapiers, and pirates silently boarding ships, cutlasses between their teeth. Closer to longswords than daggers, but usable in perfectly believable backstab scenarios.

Actually, yes. A dagger would be lighter and therefore easier to aim for your opponent's vital areas than a heavier, bulkier longsword when your opponent doesn't know you're there. Longswords are more effective for going toe-to-toe with a foe, while daggers are better for quick kill moves (realistically speaking).

I love how you slipped in the insult "failed" in your comment. It can be done but they just used slashing motions from attacking from behind, they never tried to make a backstabbing mechanic, they just had striking people from behind. Which would make sense with any of your weapons. It would be nice to have a backstab mechanic though, just try not to insult Bethesda about something they weren't even trying for...

They're going to add a butterfly knife that instantly kills when you back stab and a Critical Hit will pop up.

In reality being sneaky with a two handed sword or a war hammer, wearing heavy armor is close to impossible - not so in Oblivion and Morrowind I remember sneaking on people while wearing a full daedric armor and carrying two handed claymore, which is funny I admit, but not a very good game mechanic How can someone not notice a huge sword prepared for a swing???
I think daggers as stealthy weapon should be important - you can hide them, you can be quick with them, you can surprise people.It would be great if there where arias in game where weapons is not allowed and you can smuggle a dagger past the guards or really on your hand to hand skill - like castles of local rulers, and maybe even majority of the cities - it may be OK to be armed near the gate and in some shady parts of the city but equipping a weapon in other parts will attract the attention of the guard, unless it's a dagger.

Insult? I said they failed to make dagger backstabs viable - I think most will agree on that, daggers are practically useless.

edit - excellent idea Sshodan.. that would be a great way to add flavor to the thief/assassin characters.

I wonder how you backstab a mudcrab.

If you know how to handle a longsowr you should be able to aim to a little zone of a unsuspecting target without any trouble, besides, you don't need to go so close, so, more time to aim.

The thing about weapon viability though make sense.

I backstabbed a mudcrab a couple days ago. Awful creatures.

Daggers are useless, but they didn't make dagger backstabs inviable, it's just that they never even attempted to make backstabs for anything. Daggers have just been flawed and needed a buff and they've worked on it. It's not like people are forced to use them, it just basically meant that there was one less weapon to use. However, you could make a powerful dagger if you enchant it due to the attack speed.

Should depend on armour. If enemy has full plate armour, the longsword should be better (if you can get in range without being discovered). If enemy has incomplete armour (or just normal clothes) the dagger should give a bonus to the sneak attack, because the clever assassin can jab it in a vulnerable spot. But I agree, the main difference should be that the longsword has a huge sneak penalty. And drawing a large weapon close to NPCs should also have a huge sneak penalty due to noise.

I would also like to see sneak attack bonus being more than just on/off. I.e. if you get discovered just before the attack (within a second or so), but the enemy doesn't have time to draw a weapon / dodge, there should still be some attack bonus, just not the full bonus. Makes it feel more fluid and less gamey... all about positioning and surprise, not an on-off toggle.

You could backstab in Oblivion? It kinda hard to fail when you didn't try. Or are you talking about the Sneak multiplier?

I think sneaking should be an alternative to combat, not a sort of sub-skill which only complements fighting. In Oblivion you would sneak, get a sneak attack in to knock off a fair bit of their health, and then combat would proceed as usual. Instead sneaking up on someone should be far more difficult, but doing so successfully would effectively allow you to bypass combat with a quick and easy kill. Warriors should find it very hard to sneak, while someone who has chosen to level their sneak will have a much easier time. The difficulty of sneaking up on a target should be of a similar difficulty to besting that opponent in open combat.

Thank you, someone else noticed that backstabbing doesn't exist.

It could be cool, but considering how offen you see your oponent vefore you are hit in Oblivion, the implications are terrifing.