Agreed.

I think that's a good idea. Give it a chance. Fallout New Vegas (despite your character getting shot in the head) starts out a little slow and uninteresting but really takes off after a few hours.

Grab yourself a stealthboy from the schoolhouse and use it once you heads towards Sloan from the cemetery where you get your first snow globe. You can make the run North and hit the casino at level one if your careful. Makes New Vegas way more fun and less linear at the start if you play that way.

Here is a visual explanation of the run. You don't have to do focus on getting the Intelligence implant, but heading North at the beginning and opening up map locations, makes New Vegas way more fun to play versus following the linear route, heading south.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7_l4AAwGoQ

It's always best to not use the McDonalds argument... but...but.. it's so apropos ~or seems so when the other person [this happens a lot] insists on equating popularity and sales with quality and appropriateness.

Quality is so open to interpretation, that I don't think we can use it as an argument. One person's drek is another's ambrosia... and it's because they are looking for different things. Some here do not necessarily equate 'immersion' ~as it's been used, with a first person simulation of what the player would see if they were present in the game world; others can't fathom any other way as being interesting or significant.

So what's in a name? Everyone seems to love Nutella [I've never tried the stuff]. Nutella looks almost exactly like Vegemite (though a lighter toned brown). They are used for the same thing, in the same way; but they appeal to entirely different consumers. I don't think anyone would contest that Nutella is more popular in the US than Vegemite, but surely everyone can see that you don't sell Vegemite branded as Nutella... and yet selling FO3 as Fallout 3 was exactly like selling Nutella branded as Vegemite.

Unfortunately, now the majority expects the Nutella-Fallout, and making FO4 any different than FO3, would be just as egregious.
(There is nothing to be done about it now, but don't anyone kid themselves that it was an appropriate change to the Fallout formula; it wasn't.)

New Vegas was about the best you could possibly do, for basing the project on FO3, and it got flack for what was done right ~there it is again... One person's Ambrosia is the other one's drek.

The difference to keep in mind is that both camps are given the same word for the thing they want to have, and ask for by name.

Let's not make this into a Obsidian vs Bethesda/Fallout:NV vs Fallout:3 thread. It's pointless and usually becomes a towering inferno.

I'll stay happy if they keep taking turns. I have to say that I enjoyed them both and had pet peeves about them both. What would be really grand would be if our forum members took an interest in accepting that we all have our opinions about all of the games we've ever played and opinions about some we don't play. We really can discuss them together, share our differing opinions and accept one another despite their differences. That's the key to good and interesting debate. No anger, no namecalling, no insinuation of another being a lesser...just a realization that many people have many opinions and they don't always jive. Thank goodness for that.

Ok, let's try to get through this thread and be kind.

Thread!!!/

I understand exactly where your coming from but make no mistake, most of us don't love Bethesda's fallout for what they have done with the Fallout franchise but rather we love it because of what they have done with thier own open world. I know that is little consolation and I'm really sorry that the franchise wasn't reborn in a more fitting manner for it's roots but from my point of view it is a welcome rebirth for what it has given Bethesda's open world and much more fitting than perma death.

Some feel (please forgive me gizmo, it's been like 6-7 years since we have been at this table of debate and I can't rember what camp your in) that the series was better off dead than to have it's IP perverted to this degree by Bethesda shoe horning it into their idea of a game. Me, I guess I'm just lucky to have fallen in love the Beth's game model before FO3 was ever concieved and personally, I just can't get enough. I would probably buy any bethesda Open world game regardless of setting even if i had been privy to FO1 and 2(wish i had been) when I was into turnbased rpgs.

Morrowind ruined all of my favorite turn based rpg, rts, simulation games for like 11 years, Only recently have i been able to get into games outside of Bethedsda's model with a few early access alpha indie titles one of which is a voxel based zombie hoarding game and the other is a first person PVE mmo space trader/fighter with full RTS mechanics and insane universe scale, both of which have rpg skill elements, crafting and are fully open world.

I didn't hate NV, especially not for being more like the originals, i just liked Bethesda's open world more than Obsidians.

Bore to explore?? As if Fallout 3 was any better? Most if not all of New Vegas' location has a story behind them if you take the time to look for it. Fallout 3 had stories to some locations yet, but most locations were random empty buildings or caves with no story. The Capitol building is a major location in Fallout 3, yet is nearly devoid of ANY story.

Honestly, I feel like some think Fallout 3 was more exciting to explore because of the city and all the ruins when in fact those ruins barely had any substance or anything to them. I felt like they were empty and devoid of anything to explore until I installed interior mods for the ruins.

It's not the game's fault if you can't figure out how to do the companion quests. All you have to do is talk to your companion for once, you know like in an RPG? Cass about her caravans and Boone about Bitter Springs. Is it that hard? Or do you want the game to have a marked location and hold your hand the entire time.

More Like New Vegas except with better exploration of course.

Apparently Fo4 is rumored to be more story heavy; a nice change IMO.

I hope it's more like New Vegas and also has many new systems in place.

Combat and Companions need a revamp. Some items (ammo, power armor) should be very rare. Survival should be important. Plot and Quests really need improvements as well

Meh. Divinity, XCOM, Pillars(semi), and Shadowrun were great. Torment and XCOM2 also look to be amazing.

I really just want Fallout 4, and every game after it, to look at what worked and didn't in the previous games and build off of them.

People enjoyed exploring Fallout 3's environments while NV was lacking, might as well take some queues from F3 on how to do that well. They just need to balance it and make sure that they don't make the whole game places to explore because it's been centuries since the Great War and a lot of places should be settled or already thoroughly explored by people over the centuries.

NV had better combat, characters, writing, quests, and DLC. Build off of that too. Add more weapon mods, weapon types, and unique weapons. Have a bigger cast of interesting companions and a bigger cast of interesting and complex characters in general. Have a more emotionally engaging story with many emotionally engaging side stories (without reverting to F3's attempt at family drama that fell completely flat). Have more quests with many more ways of completing each of them (NV's handful of options per quest was good but I'd love it if they could have even more). Have more, bigger DLC (F3's were hit or miss while NV's were of a consistent good quality).

If Fallout 4 is anything like Skyrim: post-apocalypse version, I'll be satisfied. I have confidence in Bethesda, they haven't let me down yet.

Good way to put it, but it is indeed a matter of opinion which is best. In my opinion.

I really, really hope that's the case.

If nothing else, that's all I want from this game.

If you mean that reddit rumor it's been debunked. That said I do hope FO4 is more story base.

I think the term 'argumentum ad populum' (appeal to popularity) would be more appropriate in this instance.

Karma is pretty broken in FO:NV too, you loose karma from picking up ammo on the floor inside the stronghold of an faction you are at war with.

Creating piles of bodies and looting them is however ok, more fun if killing them also give karma

Hopefully they'll also include a few ambient music tracks from the original games! I loved hearing them in FNV

If they used the FNV game elements combined with the Skyrim engine that would be a great start.

I'd like to have:

1.) Factions that you can join and their enemies become your enemies.

2.) Choices with consequences

3.) DT and ammo options

4.) Have a world that looks like people could live in it. It is 200+ years after the bombs, people need to be able to drink the water and grow food without dying from radiation. No living off of scavenged food supplies, they'd have been looted generations ago. Some heavily radiated unlooted places would be fine but not the entire world like FO3 was.

And finally the most important thing for fallout 4 to have is the Kardashian clan and Caitlyn Jenner surviving as ghouls

Yes, bring DT back! This was such a small yet important change to make combat more tactical.

One big difference in New Vegas I would like to keep is how your character seems to have a bigger impact on the world.

Fallout 3 is a series of episodic adventures independent of each other: you fix the issue in Megaton, then in Rivet City etc and there is little crossover between settlements. While New Vegas is more of an overarching narrative: finding the person who sold Boone’s wife is just part of the larger NCR/Legion story, same with events in Jacobstown or in Freeside.

This means, when I make a change in Freeside it seems to impact and change the world as a whole. While I can fix everything in Rivet City yet no one notices in Megaton.

As FO4 seems to be a world where civilization has returned more than in 3, I hope there is more of this over-arching theme.

Skyrim was also bad for this: you have plenty of choices, but they feel like they make very little difference. I hope we keep New Vegas’ feel that your actions are shaping and changing the world.

Yeah "metallic monks" and "vault of the future" are simply epic.

I was hoping sooooo damn much that they would give at least the writing/story part to Obsidian. Oh well, I guess we'll get another shallow "funland" with random attractions scattered all around with no logical integrity or thought filled with NPCs that have Twitter-friendly linear dialogues, some of which provide linear quests where your only choice is whether you take it or not, and consequence of finishing it is some XP and caps.

Actually fonv sold more it's first year release than fo3 did. Also no goty awards because it was getting slammed for bugs (which btw is more stable after developer patches than fo3 is) but the treatment isn't given to Bethesda when everyone knows their games are gonna be released with bugs. Also a lot of sites that slammed it at release backtracked later and reconned their evaluation. So much so of the treatment that websites were getting slammed when they praised skyrim and didn't give them the same treatment, that many jumped ship and started condemning skyrim because of their bugs (but of course AFTER they already have their review).

I love both, they are yin and yang in strengths and weaknesses. What fo3 does best, fonv doesn't do as well in. What fonv does great, fo3 doesn't do well in.
BUT it's Bethesda we are talking about and every game they release is money in the bank and reviewers know that so they are always giving a positive review while skimping over the flaws whereas obsidian got the backlash that Bethesda should have been receiving for basically all their games, but obsidian isn't as big as Bethesda.

So I love both and both should have gotten goty, but u know what? The fans don't decide that, companies do.

Obsidian should handle the West coast and BGS the East coast. F4 is going to be a successor to F3 in every way.