:laugh: i always see people posting that. am i the only one that picked steed as a birthsign?

also i have to strongly agree with kermit....in that you should have to use scrolls/spells/resources etc to use this instant travel that has no consequences.

Cant be a trapped time traveler with a teleportation and HUD device embedded in their body without fast travel.

Thats how I look at it.

Please dont litter this thread with any more bad anologies. I kind of understand your point but it's a very personal one. It has to do with the subtle nyancies of the gameplay experience, the feeling of the world etc. Now, to argue against the implementation of fast travel based on this, that is, to prioritize it higher, I disagree with. I would admit that you have a point if the game design at large was somehow connected to fast travel but it need not be and there's no indication that it is.



What are you arguing here? What's the logic? Is it something like this "the argument for fast travel is anologous to x, y, z... which are ridiculous and cannot be implemented, therefore fast travel cannot be implemented either"? Was that it? It's a non sequitur.



These anologies make no sense. There's no logic to them.



I highly doubt they're going to be "in your face". We dont know the exact way they're implemented but I'm sure it will be quite easy to ignore that option.

I know I've said this before, but fast-travel needs to exist for the soul purpose of making the game more widely accessible. You can complain all you want about how new, less "hardcoe" force the franchise to change, but the fact is that those same new players helped pay for the continued existence of the ES franchise.

This immersion argument doesnt make any sense! Why force players to "immerse" themselves in the universe any deeper than they want to? That choice should be left up to the player and the player alone. And walking for three hours isnt immersion, its a pain.

I think you should be addressing me, but whatever. Anyway...no, they don't. Locations may certainly only be FT'd to after you've physically found them, but not only is returning to them going to be a snap from then on out, but so is getting back to other, presumably safer, civilized places where you can recuperate and sell your schwag. Oblivion's Fast Travel easily eliminates the challenge of braving a trip back to safety after you've been especially battered, and removes the importance of coming prepared, considering how using it has no consequence. Eliminate the risk, lessen the impact of the reward. Considering stats, questing is something that should be done regularly, and ideally should encourage you to go off the beaten path and be challenged enough to gain sufficient skill increases and level ups (which is what the Radiant Story system is advertised at aiming to do, anyway). If you hit a wall because your stats are too low, that's not a counterbalance against fast travel, that's more a point to tell you to slow down and get yourself up to snuff before tackling whatever just whipped you (by...doing more questing and exploring. Intelligently).

Real methods of counterbalancing FT relies on preserving what's already present in normal travel: hostility. I get that nobody wants to constantly backtrack through familiar areas; hell I don't want to do that either (Morrowind has not aged well for me because of that). But that's no excuse to strip away the game's challenge like OB's FT has done. Enemies and the world itself should always be a concern. And the best way to keep the challenge while removing the tedium of normal travel is through a system akin to Fallout 1 and 2, with random encounters, combined with areas of the map that are notably more dangerous than others.

:whisper: Oh, and Shadow Over Hackdirt can begin in Chorrol. Just so you know.

I think one of the biggest problems with Oblivion was the usage of fast travel. It made the game world seem insignificant by letting you skip around it instantly. Considering how often you had to hop from town to town and cave to cave for quests, it simply became a "CLICK ME FOR EASYMODE" scenario every time you opened the map.

It's kind of like having someone offer you a piece of cake/pie every time you sat down: sure it is very tasty and all, but it just encourages you to do the wrong thing. You can easily say to yourself, ''okay i want to experience the game without fast-traveling,'' but when you are having to run from anvil to leyawiin for the tenth time, that button on the map you keep opening will start screaming at you.

I'm not against all forms of fast transport. I just want it to be integrated into the world I am playing in. Horses? Check. Wagons? Check. No free buttons of space-time fluctuation in my Skyrim, please. Why not throw in some free laser cannons to make combat more convenient too?

:facepalm:

I have to agree with the "no fast travel" folks to some extent. I adored the travel mechanics in Morrowind, it meant that traveling from one end of the map to the other presented a challenge. It also gave one the feeling of "well, while I'm in Vivec I should sort out the business I have here before moving on." and "I can walk to Balmora, and on the way I can stop off at Pelagiad." just like a real world.

Oblivion was a lot of fun, but the infinite fast travel to any spot on the map made the game feel so much smaller. I have located every single area in Oblivion, but there are still areas in Morrowind I have yet to visit.

I think the carriages are a step in the right direction but it is too early to tell if the use of fast travel will be necessary.

I stand by this. Morrowind seemed so much bigger because every time I needed to get there I would grab my gear and head out on and adventure. Oblivion I didn't do that as often. Once I found a place I would get there instantly. It took away from the RPG aspect that I enjoyed in Morrowind.

I dont understand why an optional feature is a problem. Its an OPTION. If you dont like it, dont use it. If you want the game to be harder or more realistic or more this or more that, adjust accordingly. Its a single player game, play it how you want to play it.

My first play through oblivion (and my first through skyrim) i didnt touch it at all/wont in skyrim. The first time through is the best time to do this, as you not only have no clue where anything is (so the exploring factor is awesome) but you also have no clue how beautiful the world is either. After you have a clue, and you move on to number two, you might want to do that again to feel immersed, or you might know the walk from town a to town b is boring and has nothing worth seeing and youd rather not do that AGAIN. You could even go as far as to roleplay mark/recall still being in and ONLY using the fast travel to where you "set your mark".

Options are amazing, they allow us to decide how we want to play. You sound like the type of person who wants realism, but abuses the duplication glitch every time you play, because they can. Im sorry but if you cant control your own temptations it doesnt mean options should be removed for the rest of us.

The real problem with oblivion was 90% of the land looked almost the same, just grass and forests. If the land felt more diverse like morrowind (only maybe 50% was black mountains/hills, which felt bad at the time), it would of made traveling on foot more fun.

My logic is that all those changes make about as much sense as your statement on fast travel



my point...theyre all(including this quoted argument) stupid and make no sense at all and have no logical reason for implementation.....what does the size of the world have anything to do with your so called necessity to pop around to any place without use of scroll/recall spell/mage port as well as a carriage system(silt strider equiv.).....all those things put together actually make sense in the world as someone put it before and work together perfectly while also pushing you into exploration of the continent...while fast travel as someone else put it is a sort of get out of jail free card with no consequence and uses no supply of anything (intervention scroll/spell/recall/anything)






Sorry, dont really understand what youre disagreeing with...that i place the feeling you get throughout the entire game higher than fast travel? or that fast travel also effects the feeling of the game? i place all those higher than fast travel but fast travel still effects the feeling of the game....





And i hope youre right....i hope quest markers wont pop up automatically showing me the exact location on my map of the destination as opposed to me actually having to converse with random people in town to find out who the best person to get directions from would be....and then find that person and get directions similar to "follow this road east until you see this blah blah landmark...then immediately head south....the cave of blah blah will be along this valley...if you reach the blib blib foyada you have gone too far"

I hope it will be easy to ignore quest markers on my map and game pointing me to points of interest like you say

Yes this times 1000...."better make a trip to the mudcrab on my way out of vivec to sell all my crap so i can come back and stock up on scrolls/potions/whatever before i set out on my next quest" I would look through my log to sort out the general areas my quests would take me to so i could plan my route etc as opposed to just popping around everywhere in no time......i realize many people have commented that this traveling is "tedious and pointless"......but i find the travel between locations to be part of the fun of the game. Yes i still actually enjoy seeing the same place more than once as well...maybe im alone though.


Thats your opinion....some of us are of the thought that actually travelling through this huge open world they created for us is actually an enjoyable fun part of the game.



That is one thing i do agree with you on....it needs to exist to attract those that dont care to spend anytime playing the game/exploring and want to rush through/etc....Beth does need to make money after all

@harvv

And having an optional system does not prevent you from doing that. I could understand this argument if the system was mandated.

It doesnt only pertain to those who want to rush it, but maybe cant sit down for 4-5 hours to play. If I only had an hour and knew that if I put in Skyrim I'd have to spend that hour walking I'd put a different game in. I dont rush Oblivion and I'll use fast travel just to get around the Imperial City alone. You have to realize that those in favor of not having an FT system is a very small subset of fans who play these games.

Yeah, I loved Daggerfall's FT system. And this is playing Daggerfall after MW and OB. I'd like some form of DF's system appear in Skyrim for our FT.

To agree with those that say "Ignore it!"....OB's system was great in the sense that it made the game appeal to a wider audience, which would have helped contribute toward other projects Bethesda would have had in mind (Fallout 3, Skyrim). All that could have been asked on this issue from those who were a bit serious with their RP was just not to use it, and instead purchase a horse or walk.

To agree with those that say "'Improve' it!"....This one is a bit personal. There is a small feeling of wonder and excitement when I would stumble upon various ruins and dungeons while I travelled in Morrowind. It gives the world a sense of size and wonder, the less fast travelling, the bigger this sense becomes. For example, after I have played Oblivion for a day, I believed that it was 10x smaller than Morrowind. As soon as I started playing it the day before, however, I thought it was a huge country. I honestly believe FT kinda dampened the experience. For Skyrim, I plan to try and keep the excitement of exploration alive and refuse to use FT at all. Not to mention, that there is the lack of encounters while fast travelling in OB.

Fast Travel is going to be in, and it's kinda disappointing, but at least it can be ignored. There are fears that Bethesda may make it even easier to traverse their open-world game worlds instantly and without consequence. However, these issues and fears are outshined by the addition of carriges. I'm glad some of those that want a limited FT service similar to the Siltstriders are being thought of.

The size of the game world is the only reason that's relevant here. Ever heard of a thing called user - friendliness? No reason to force players to walk the same beaten paths since there's a very simple solution available. Use it or do not - your decision.

I personally dont need any pushing to explore. I want to explore, that's the reason I pick up the game but I also want to travel quickly every now and then and that option has to be available when I need it.



Why should it use supplies? Whats the point of that? Will it make the game more fun? It only makes it tedious. Making game challenging and making it tedious are very different things.



The game and the gaming experience as a whole has a certain atmosphere and feeling. It's produced by different components. The feeling you get from the absence of fast travel is one such component and I'm pretty sure it's not among the most notable ones. You prefer this component higher than the user - friendliness that fast travel brings. This preference is what I'm disagreeing with.

For the last fricking time! Your not teleporting when you fast travel! Have ever noticed that when you arrive somewhere after fast traveling its a different time of day? That's becasue fast travelling just cuts out the time it takes to travel. That's why it's called fast ------> traveling <------ and not fast teleporting Seriously grow a brain and drop this pathetic and idiotic debate.

you are 100% wrong. as i posted earlier if you travel from one side of the map to the other you will use resources up. you will have to use potions for health or magicka or curing diseases, you will have to repair your armor and you might even end up dying. there is none of that when you use the map travel system. its completely risk free and costs nothing and is easily abused to get yourself out of dangerous situations. saying that a couple of hours past while completely ignoring the rest of the issues is just daft.

Yes but there is also a point where too much streamlining and making accessible becomes a bad thing. Your so called user - friendliness is the main offender of games becoming too dumbed down.(this has happened in many game series and there is a reason people make many threads scared of the direction making things too user friendly leads) Im surprised you dont know this.

And in MY opinion fast travel only farrr plays down the size of the game world.....the size of the game world is one of the greatest parts but FT in turn makes it seem much smaller making the scale of everything much less impressive....i guess i disagree with you completely there

Id direct a lot of your responses about why it should use supplies or at least lead to combat very often to this....he explains it very well


And i guess everything else you say i just disagree with....

I personally enjoy the experience of traveling place to place and dont find it to be the tedious task you describe it as...(a game designed around FT, like OB, would greatly detract from this)...

I personally enjoy having to talk to people around town finding info about quest locations then figuring out the directions as opposed to having a quest marker pop up on my map(but like you say itll prolly be easy to ignore quest markers on my map/sarcasm...having a game designed around the idea you will be using quest markers would also lead to shallower less detailed quest dialogue)

although since you still havent given any kind of reasoning for why you see all this to be tedious i dont really know what to say, maybe its low attention span?.....dont enjoy seeing the same place more than once?....would prefer it to be pushed in more of a linear start to finish action gamish direction which ft along with quest markers are doing because you want to just get it done quickly and find the rest to be an exercise in tedium?...dont want to put much time into it?


This will be my last post as im heading out and our opinions are obviously completely opposite so doesnt lead much room for discussion. Was interesting i guess seeing that a lot of people find some of my favorite parts of the games(the traveling and seeing everything) to be tedious to the point of considering FT a necessity.

And ill say again im very happy the carriage/boat systems were added. I just hope the game wont be designed around the idea that you will be using fast travel and quest markers...would be terrible and lead to more shallow quests. although like you say it would be more "user-friendly"(which is apparently your favorite term) so you might love it cause you would never have to actually think about where to go.

Ok, I'm sorry. What your proposing is an example of too much realism. That wouldn't be fun, it's just annoying. If your crazy about exploring or using fast travel methods with "risks" then don't use fast travel. Fast travel is merely a time saver, and it shouldn't be anything more or less.

I haven't played Oblivion (I did play Fallout 3, however), but I think the 'If you don't like it don't use it' argument is applicable for every feature they put in. Using the construction set that came with Morrowind you could drop some daedric armor in the center of Seyda Neen for your character to pick up, but I doubt if anyone making an serious attempt at playing the game ever did. For me it's the same thing with fast travel. I barely used it in Fallout 3 because I thought that if you're travelling across the world yourself you'd encounter more enemies to defeat and more interesting places so your character will develop more (more xp, new weapons, etc.). I thought that was more important than the quests I was given.

I think they should put in as much gameplay features as they can come up with. If I don't like it I'm not using it.

That, and fast travel can come in pretty handy if you desperately want to complete the quest right before you're of to work.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eodRH_HgLX4&feature=player_detailpage#t=10s

found it funny and appropriate

"5 hours real time just to fly somewhere"....


thank god for fast travel.

i wasnt suggesting that you should be forced to walk from one end of the other i was pointing out that using map travel is not the same as travelling. it is an exploit and if you played any games that dont have map travel you will see immediatly how much of an exploit oblivions system really is.

Don't like fast traveling? Don't use it. I won't be, and I'm glad to see that Bethesda will be including a carriage system to make it easy to do so.

I do not see how anyone has any right to demand the removal of an optional feature that doesn't get in the way of anything and can easily be ignored, particularly if the bulk of the user base makes avid use of it.

O' a game that doesn't have map travel? Hmmmm. . . you mean like Morrowind! When I played the MW main quest I had to travel for that village, which is buy the way in the middle of nowhere on the very top of the map, to other places at least 25 times. And while doing that I found and explored literary everything leading up to that village, and by the time I was finished with that I was about ready to BLOW MY FRICKING BRAINS OUT! Back and forth, back and forth, my goss it almost ruined the main story for me. If only I could have fast traveled it wouldn't have been bad at all. Fast travel keeps me form wasting my life away while I walk the same path I've walked a million times. There really is no other way to do it. Fast travel is a necessity. If I feel like exploring I'll explore, which I do all the time, but if I have to go to the same place over and over again there better be a way to skip the traveling time. Things like silk riders and carriages only make sense when your going to and form large cites, but for the rural areas there has to be something like fast travel. I also don't see how its an exploit when you can't fast travel when your in danger or over-weight.

I don't use fast travel much as i like exploring, i just see it as an optional feature of the game that doesn't bother me in the slightest.