When Oblivion first came out we had lots of debates about how TES IV was dumbed down, or it holds your hand when you play, or they made it to simple or easy to play etc etc. I understand why Bethesda has done this. They said they made the game easier to play so the many, non hard core casual gamers will buy the game and play it. They made the game easier by adding a marker compass, non killable NPCs and stuff like that.

While I wish there is an option to toggle the marker compass (basically you can do this by selecting a different quest so you do not know where you are going) but I never liked the non killable NPCs. These are just a few ideas, there are many more.

So this game is what 5 years old now? This is not to see what is better or what is worse. What I would like to know, for the people who loved Oblivion when it first came out, is did you like how everything was implemented when you first played it? Was the ease of finding your quests and telling you where to go make the game more fun? Did you like that you couldn't make a mistake and kill an NPC which was vital for a quest? Do you like you can't loose an quest item? Now after 5 years have passed and you have become more older, more wiser, more experianced in gaming, do you see Oblivion too easy now? Would you like it or should I say would you like the next game, hopefully TES V be a bit more complicated?

What would you like changed? Would you still want unkilliable NPCs? Would you still want a map and compass telling you where to go when in fact you should have no idea were you are going? Would you like more to make it easier?

While I know non of this stuff will change what ever is going to happen if there is a TES V. I am wundeirng how peoples gaming style has changed. Back then for Bethesda it was to get as many people to buy the game. To get all types, hard core and casual gamer. So for people who liked the casualness of Oblvion when it first came out, how are you now? Do you still prefer the simpleness or easiness of the game, or do you wish for something more now?

Please people remember this is not for debate. It has been done numerous times. I just want to see how peoples gaming styles have changed. I want to see if peoples tastes have changed over time, or if they are still the same.

There is no right or wrong answer so please let us not debate what system is better, but lets read if peoples opnions have changed over the years after first playing Oblivion.

When I first heard of Oblivion I didn't even know about TES. I saw a friend playing it, and it just looked like a sandbox medieval combat game, which is why I first bought it. Not being a major RPG player beforehand, I treated it as such, and the quest markers and such didn't bother me

3 years on, I've come to appreciate it as more than just a hack 'n' slash adventure game, and would prefer to have no quest markers and such. I still see it as much as an adventure game as an RPG, but that's probably just the way I play it

I'll tell you what I like and Dislike, nothing more nothing less.

Like:
Combat system dependent on player skill

Dislike:
Automatic quest markers
Immortal NPCs
The implementation of fast travel

I appreciate the existence of the "casual" features of Oblivion, but I don't want them to affect my playthrough personally. I vote make them toggleable.

As do I. Really, I'm not annoyed by the idiot-proofed gameplay mechanics as much as I am by the fact there's no option at all to personalize them. It should be easy enough! Seeing how Obsidian is pushing forward with dividing casual and heavy RPG elements in New Vegas with their hardcoe mode, I wouldn't be surprised if Bethesda borrowed a page from them for TES V.

Without Oblivion, i wouldn't be a TES fan today, that's for sure. If i had picked up Morrowind before Oblivion, i wouldn't have been able to understand it or appreciate it. Infact, Oblivion is the sole reason i even became interested in the roleplaying genre. I had zero experience with the genre when i bought Oblivion and i only came across it because of a review.

Because of Oblivion, Morrowind was much easier to understand.

But to answer your questions...



Not only did i like it, i loved it.



It did.



I rarely kill NPC's without a good reason. When i first started out, i never killed any NPC's unless it was related to a quest... except for Dorian, because of the money glitch. So it was never really a problem.



Meh. :shrug: It dosn't really matter to me.



Yes and no. Exploring is a lot easier than in Morrowind but on the other hand, the combat is harder.



Yes. Oblivion is an excellent game but this is especialy true for people who is ufamilier with the genre, i do understand "some" of the Morrowind fans complains. I wouldn't mind a little less "hand-holding" in future games.



As i said before, i don't care. Almost all my characters is good guys so it's rarely a problem.



I'm not completely sure about it but i think i would prefer if they drop it. A few directions from the NPC's should be enough. Makes exploring much more fun but on the other hand, that Dwemer Puzzle Box really was a nightmare.



Apart from the things already mentioned and the things they cut out (Skills, Guilds, Werewolves etc.) Nothing comes to mind. I'm sure there's more though, i just can't remember it. :banghead:

How could i forget... leveled enemies and items. I never want to see that again. It is without doubt Oblivion's biggest fault. And if it has to be there, atleast try to hide it, like in Morrowind.

My views on it all has changed over the years. I had never touched a free-roaming RPG in my life when I first tried Oblivon. On my first try I didn't even get any further than the first ruin outside the sewers before I gave up, too confused to continue. I didn't understand the concept. A few months later I started a new character and tried again - and loved it. Oblivion has been one of the best gaming experiences I've ever had. Since I hadn't played any other RPGs of that type, I had nothing to compare it with either. So I enjoyed it all immensely. Then, a few years down the road, I tried Morrowind. Morrowind was hard to get into for me. Very hard. I couldn't play for long before shutting down the game in frustration, but I kept coming back. There was something so magical about this game that I could never give it up. There are still some features I'm not too fond of in Morrowind - like it being very time-consuming and confusing trying to find a dungeon. Especially since the world was so barren, dark and unfriendly, I never really enjoyed exploring it in the same way I did Oblivion. Yet, over time, I came to understand - and agree with - the "dumbing down" thing.

So, yeah, now I find Oblivion a bit too simplified. I mean... when I'm on a quest where I am in a dungeon and I find an old book, I don't need a pop-up message telling me "I've found a mysterious-looking book. I should read it". But I can also understand that some people enjoy the game more when it's easier. What I hope, is that gaming technology now can replace Difficulty with hardcoe. So instead of a difficulty slider that just means you have to whack a goblin over the head a few times more to kill it, I would like to see advanced settings where you can toggle off and on things like unkillable NPCs, map markers, fast travel, food and water necessities, needing to sleep etc. That way, you can customize your own way of playing on a detailed level, and the developers can satisfy both the causal and hardcoe gamers, without losing any money on it. That sounds like the ultimate solution to me.

I enjoyed the game for about a month (which was far too quick for a playthrough), at which point, I got bored of the hand holding and ever so scaling enemies. I had played Morrowind before playing Oblivion, and I couldn't help but be annoyed by the simplicity of the game, which was the reason why it was so quick.

If the compass is togglable, I demand that we get reasonable directions for every quest, and that it gets recorded in our journal ala Morrowind.

I'm not even going to get into fast travel...

Oh, and before I get labelled as a mindless Morrowind fan boy with othing better to do than exclaim Morrowind as the greatest game of all time, because it was my first: Daggerfall is far superior. I played that even after playing Oblivion.

I'd rather prefer the directions got in journal a bit more reliably than Morrowind, and were a bit less vague.
Or, in comparison to Oblivion, Think of Pale Pass. That's how directions should be given. Except if you give a quest that's halfway across the province, send me to the nearest city first, saying "someone there should be able to give better directions." Send me through a string of locations so I know when I've messed up.

It's one thing to say "Get on I-75 in Florida. Head North until you hit Detroit." Quite another to explain how to find a town that requires getting off a freeway onto a state highway, then a local county road, then side-streets to side-streets. The palces we're going need to be the latter, and we need directions accordingly. Maybe we even have to pay more money to get the more precise directions. But to call Morrowind satisfactory? setting the bar a bit too low, in my arrogant opinion.

At first I kinda liked them, but then eventually as I progressed far through the same, it started feeling to simple.

I got lost, perhaps twice in Morrowind? And I loved it. It really made the world seem that more expansive and awesome. 99% of the time, there would be straight forward directions such as "Head north from until you reach a foyada and follow it until you see ." If you don't know what a foyada is, you could click it and find out.

Also, most of, if not all of the times I'd been lost were for thing that are supposed to be hard to find, hidden from outlanders and out of the way. Such as the Cavern of the Incarnate, Urshilaku Burial Caverns, and the hermits around Sheogorad.

I think Morrowind handled it geat, and I want to see it again. sure, a few quests had gave me bad directions, but I stil want to see Morrowind style directions.

Although, I do want to see a return of Daggerfall's system, too. If I want to find something, I could ask a local, and they could point me to it, if they know.

Wow, I had a similar experience to most people here. Oblivion just looked like a really fun sand box game when a friend of mine recommended it to me.
I didn't even try Morrowind until earlier this year, because my previous experience with it was less than exciting. That was before Oblivion really got me into the series. I love Morrowind now as well as Daggerfall.

Oblivion did feel too easy at times. I didn't feel like I was really getting anything out of exploring during a quest, because my objective was always shown for me.
But it definitely gave me a better experience than Morrowind's quests. Trying to find that Dwemer puzzle box was almost impossible for me.

Enemies leveling was also a bit of a problem for me. I never really felt like I was in danger when I was running through the forests, which I should have.
Going to Morrowind from Oblivion gave me a huge advantage. I really enjoyed Morrowind's mechanics as well. I think others will feel the same, if the next game is harder.

Bethesda did an amazing job at bringing in a whole new audience. Since everybody I know, even in real life, have played Oblivion, I hope they are willing to take some risks with the next game.
Then again, I think risk taking is pretty much a guarantee. They have done it with every new game lately. A game like Oblivion must have sounded silly back when Morrowind was the most popular.
And Morrowind, from what I've seen, was also an odd change from Daggerfall. Don't forget about Fallout 3. Todd Howard has said multiple times that they try to innovate with every game they make.

What I'm trying to say is, they already have that huge casual audience, which was the major goal of Oblivion. If you're interested, you can listen to Todd discusses it http://irrationalgames.com/insider/irrational-interviews-pilot/.
Now is the time to ease the casual audience into the hardcoe audience.
To paraphrase something Todd said in that interview: When the casual players get into it, they want just as deep an experience as the hardcoe players.
An easier Elder Scrolls isn't something we should be too worried about.

Todd also said something along the lines of, if people get stuck or confused too early on, thats the time their most likely to put the game down.
So yeah i'd expect an easy tutorial for the newcomers to get used to everything.

It's a very difficult balance they have to deal with. A lot harder than a lot of people probably think.

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As for things I would remove from Oblivion...
In my perfect game, there wouldn't be a single essential NPC.
Total freedom is something I really like, even if it means completely ruining my game. Manners to execute this have been gone over to death, so I won't go into it.

Fallout 3 had leveling about where I would want it. Enemies leveling and unlocking tougher enemies is something I kind of like, but it should only happen to some degree.
There should always be a chance you will come up against something you are not skilled enough to fight.

Quest markers are going to have to stay, I think. Perhaps tweaked a bit, so it only gives vague whereabouts. It's hard to deny how valuable they are to a lot of people including the developers.

Yes! Me too! This Vivec avatar is just an elaborate ruse - when it boils down to pure gameplay and not the world, I think Daggerfall had the best mechanics in the series. :toughninja:

Making the game easier to play without taking away from the game. e.g. Adding content that adds to game play but makes it easier to do certain tasks, such as an "auto" button for various skills/tasks. as apposed to just removing skills to make it simpler.

e.g. Potion making. curently you choose an ingredient and have to scroll through a long list of other ingredients to decide what other ingredients to add to the potion. It can take a long time if you have many ingredients or want to make many potions.

Adding to the game: They could have a list of potions that can be made with your ingredients. And you select the potion and it creates the potion and removes teh used ingredients from your inventory. OR. Choose an ingredient and it shows you what potions can be made with that ingredient depending on what otehr ingredients you have, then you would choose the potion you want to brew using that ingredient.

Taking away from the game: Each ingredient can only be used to make one type of potion and only one type of ingredient is needed.

My feelings/view of TES4 have not changed. I pretty much only played it through once, tried some other character, got many mods, but in the end went back to Daggerfall. TES4 hasn't been installed in 2 years or something. Neither is TES3, but that I'd get back into if I had to choose between them.

It's obvious that people who've never played TES series might like the hand holding, but equally obvious that TES veterans will see it as a huge dumb down. And even those who started with TES4 are now older and smarter, the fanbase has grown a lot, so TES5 could be a lot more challenging without intimidating any of them. Those who got on during TES1-2 are now 25-35 or older, TES3 generation is also approaching 25-30, and kids who started with TES4 are no longer kids So imo it would be a huge mistake to make the next game for children or teens.

I pretty much agree with the above. :foodndrink:

I can never understand why they make a game so easy (compared to other TES games) and then have a rated M on their game. Sort of defeats the purpose.

The game was originally rated T. After launch the media got wind of a nudity mod and threw a fit and the ESRB reclassified the game to M. Or at least that's my knowledge of the incident.

That's moronic. People could (and often do) mod nudity into these games anyway - I always thought that the ESRB was just supposed to rate based on the game's own content as-is, with a disclaimer warning about the potential dangers of modding tools and the construction set. Probably what made Oblivion particularly prominent here is that I hear Bethesda had a nudity texture floating around in the game's BSA archives, so in a way they considered the developers to be at fault for helping to provide "official" assets that could be used for...nefarious...purposes. :shrug:

Really though, Morrowind would've been far more deserving of an M rating. Blatant racism? Slavery? Giant insects? It makes the world of Oblivion seem so peaceful.

I was talking about this before.

TV shows do the same thing. They try to aim for the same demographic, year after year, instead of "growing" with their original fans. Then, they try to respond to the loss of ratings with drastic changes like marrying two characters.

From my humble observations, I have seen that series' last when they become more intricate and mature with each new installment. If you put out the same thing again, with no real improvements to the "meat" of the game, people are going to find the taste stale, despite the impressive, new packaging.

Are we still talking about Oblivion? Because the argument as I understand it has always been that Oblivion changed too much in order to reach out to a new demographic (casual gamers).

In a nutshell...Arena and Daggerfall were famous for having characters who struggled to make it out of the first dungeon alive. Oblivion, on the other hand, is so easy that your character can beat the main mission at level 1.

Morrowind was centered chronologically and centered in difficulty. I started playing it when I was 13 years old. If a 13 year old can get into that kind of game, I think most people can.

What will attract mainstream gamers is graphics and gameplay. The handholding will seem nice at first, but it will get old. These are mature games, there is slight learning curve. I wouldn't want a game that a 7 year old can play, unless they have an older brother or father who can show them the way.

Why can we not use age ratings? All these letters confuse me, no matter how many times I'm told what they mean... :cryvaultboy:

And the reason Oblivion was pushed up to an "M", is because nudity was included in the game, but, it was only aessible when modded in (not that it's not completely idiotic reasoning - They should have actually played the game first)