Haha. That's either the most sixist thing I've ever read or the most sarcastic.


I disagree. Yes, men treat women differently than other men and women treat men differently than other women, but the fact that the vast majority of people in-game will treat your character the same regardless of gender is part of what makes it so great. I say leave it as is. Have a handful of NPCs have different responses and behavior depending on gender, in the appropriate situations, but have the rest treat you the same regardless. There's enough gender discrimination and bias and stereotypes and overall sixism in the real world. I don't want it in Tamriel.

No, this idea of general pickup dialogue would just get annoying fast and would be very obnoxious.. but along with your suggestion it brings up the idea of different cross-gender reactions, which IS a good idea.

For instance:

High personality female can get away with larsony or small crimes because male guards have a tenancy towards a higher disposition since they are female and high personality. Wheras a low personality man would likely earn the wrath of a male guard just for the fact that he's a low personality male. High personality male may be able to get slightly better prices from a female shopkeeper for the fact that he is a high personality male.. whereas a normal personality female would just receive the standard. See what I'm talking about? Some sort of gender-based disposition modifier would be cool. Maybe talking to the opposite gender would give you a x1.2 or 1.4 personality effect multiplier... maybe speechcraft could have a few perks that boost the opposite gender effect... or even perks for a same gender effect depending on who you normally talk to.

Interaction differences between genders would definitely be a cool feature, so long as it's subtle and not-cheesy.

:) It's a fine line to tread, but I can pull it off sometimes... lol


Just out of interest, would anyone be against male characters being stronger and females having an advantage in speechcraft? (for example)

Yeah .... no. Let's try to avoid objectifying women like that.

Well, Oblivion, Morrowind and Daggerfall did have attribute dimorphism. (dimorphism being a difference between male and female) in Dagger it was basically sixist.. males got lots of bonuses where female got none, which is pretty [censored]. It didnt matter in the end since there was a bug that made them make no actual differences. Morrowind and Oblivion did it on a more equal basis. It's hard to delve into the topic of gender-based bonuses without it bring out all the sixism, lets see if we can talk about it in a mature manner

Now in our plane of existance.. in most species (including human beings) there is dimophism. Males have an average tenancy to be stronger, larger and faster than females (strength, speed, endurance) Just out of my personal experience I've met a lot more stupid and arrogant men than I have met stupid or arrogant women (intelligence/willpower).. most women tend to be more personable than most men (personality) being of more mild mannerisms and less intimidating, unnerving and offsetting appearances. Likewise women also tend to make some of the best gymnasts in the world because of a higher disposition towards having agility, balance and flexibility (Agility) Human females are also less susceptible to disease and infections than human males (Disease Resistance %) having a higher white blood cell count, and living longer on average.

The TES universe does not necessarily need to be truly realistic since it's a fantasy world, but I personally think that there should be differences between males and females. it makes the world more interesting and diverse, and even makes it worthwhile to create characters of different genders because you get a different playing experience.. having all NPCs and races being perfectly balanced in all manners makes for a pretty sterile and boring world, I'd like to see *asymmetrical balance* where some races and genders get bonuses that others do not get, BUT each race and gender should bring their own unique and useful bonuses to the table so they are all equal in a sense... their strengths and weaknesses are just in different places.

Why?

No, really, why? They're not creating a snow-themed ponyville, here, it's meant to be a world. A world full of nords, no less. It seems highly unlikely that nobody in the entirety of skyrim is going to have politically incorrect views.
Of course, we should also have more cross-race speech, as well, it's all important. This isn't a magical happytime world where everybody gets along with each other, after all.

Yes, what about this?

Would we have ew!!! comments. how would it know if your goodlooking or not?

Then we would have to get into whats is beautiful and a topic of dicussion on aesthetics!!!!!

Damn? that's all? my argonian female is disapoint. Stop talking the talk and grab the damn things already!

In Oblivion personality sort of played into the role of being "ugly or "pretty"

Note that Namira favored "ugly people" and being "ugly" required you to have a personality of less than 20.



Aesthetics dont matter in a video game anyways since it's pretty hard to define ugly or pretty when you have 300 hundred slider bars for setting up your face and body.

^^^This

Absolutely not, that's a good point and should probably be done.

As to the response above, what I'm talking about is not sixism or prejudice at all, but sociology and psychology.

There's nothing sixist in saying that generally men are stronger than women, and equally women more personable.

But if you take a look at some female body builders, or slimey car salesmen - it's pretty clear that these averages can be leveled out. What I was suggesting was a slight (but noticeable) initial difference, which with training can be overcome.

(edit: I never played a female character in Morrowind, and only did in Oblivion after a few other re-runs - was there an attribute difference between the genders?)

Well that was oblivion.

Personailty can meet alot more than looks though good looks definately help, personally I like to RP an ugly-old bard.

Then again personality only effected the base skill. But now I remember we don't have attributes.

I disagree quite strongly with this.

1) I think it's slightly sixist to scale attributes according to gender. Studies have on humans have shown that males and females cognitive functions are quite parallel with only slight deviations in mathematical and logic thought leaning towards males and language and emotional thought leaning towards females. But even those differences are too minimal to conceive of any difference worth distinguishing between male and female brains. And while males tend to build muscles better than females due to specialized hormonal assistance, there are too great a number of exceptions both of females and males to warrant too great a distinction.

2) I guess some people aren't this way, but under nearly all circumstances I don't talk to guys any differently than I talk to girls. I could see how some topics might flow differently based on gender, such as a conversation on who and what they find attractive or on fashion or some other gender specific advisemant; but I see no reason, both by concept and by experience, that normal universal and uniform topics, such as politics, science, gossip, or news, should be treated any differently by any form of a notable margin based on the gender of the participants. Although there are basic habits that differ between gender, such as some paralinguistic tendencies and relational thinking, non of those things actually change the bulk comprising socialization of most circumstances.

I see enough cheezy greasballs acting like this in real life, dont need it in my video games, especially TES.

Alas! 'twas but a chilling breath
Woke just enough of life in death
To make Hope die anew.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Races
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Races




As for the main topic...... uh, no. Not unless it's something specific about certain characters (as mentioned, the drunk jerk in the bar, for example).


And anyway - OP, why'd you focus on female characters? Why aren't the women NPCs in your vision of the game ogling the guy player & commenting on pecs/butt/etc?
(Which would still be annoying/silly/etc, but at least it would be equal. :rolleyes: )



Edit: thinking about it, we had NPC reactions to notable PC features in Oblivion ("My, you're a strong one!" "You look like you know how to move in Light Armor!" blah, blah, blah). And that got annoying enough, even without adding the "bonus" of it being sixist.

Yep. Like I said, in Daggerfall, Morrowind, and Oblivion there are differences.. Im just saying there should be more emphasis on them. I think that race/gender differences should be multipliers, not just attribute bonuses.. so for instance: A towering Male Orc will always be larger and stronger than a short Female Wood Elf... A small framed wood elf is not going to have the same strength and endurance capacity as a massive bodied orc. So at level 30 an orc can be a leviathan.. wheras a short level 30 wood elf can be very strong indeed; superhumanly so, but she will never be as large and towering and strong as the orc.

Well said.


It'd be amusing to see certain NPCs who're either blatantly, obnoxiously sixist and lustful, or come across as such in an innocent way as a result of "cultural differences";
NPC: Greetings, woman!
PC: ...
NPC: You have fine briasts...
PC: ...
NPC: Shall we mate now, or later?
PC: ..!

Besides that, it'd also be nice to see a few gay/lisbian NPCs written with this idea [romantically- or sixually-themed dialogue] in mind - making passing comments, compliments and implications towards an appropriate PC of the same gender (eg, a confident Nord mercenary woman at a tavern who's curiously complimentary towards female PCs).

How well this whole concept works is really dependent on how unique NPCs (and their dialogue) are.

@ Kiralyn + Hypno,

Ok. And people were fine with those base differences between the sixes?

(also, I think the OP did suggest some female NPC responses - but it was quite hard to finish reading the whole post given how ridiculous it sounded)

And lets not forget how my male Khajit rogue wouldnt mind at all if a nice strapping guard guy commented on the sleekness of his fur..

:rofl:

No, I dont think this is a good idea.

....really? Really? Why would you even bring this up? Most people are trying to get away from the slobs of RL. This isn't New Vegas. So NO.

So basically make everyone a perv?

Well, I'm not saying SOME characters can't be like that, but when every male character (which is what was implied in the OP) acts like a jerkass, it gets anoying. Plus, feminists everywhere would have a field day if Skyrim's male population was like that.

... now, now, people. Let's have a mature conversation about sixual harassment.... maybe the female character is a prosttute?