Mana and Scrolls : V - Skyrim

» Sat Sep 19, 2009 10:24 am

Remove spell scrolls from TES!

» Sat Sep 19, 2009 11:25 am

Well, not only did Morrowind have non-regenerating magicka, but it also had it so that spells had a chance to fail, and at lower levels they almost always failed. These things combined made trying to be use spells far too much of a hassle for me to even bother with. But constantly regenerating magicka in Oblivion made things a bit too easy for my tastes. I think I would like it if Skyrim had non-regenerating magicka, but didn't have the dice-roll spell system Morrowind had. I want the challenge of only having a limited amount of magicka, without the hassle of wasting it on failed spell after failed spell after failed spell.

Personally, I enjoyed that system. I would spend a lot of time ensuring that my spells had a good ratio of power to chance-to-fail so that I wouldn't get into a loop like that.

Really, I want much of the magic system from Morrowind back. I really enjoyed being a mage in Morrowind because a lot more thought went into the process. Of course we keep the things like not having to ready your hands (that was silly), but I really would like to have back spell failure chance, personal enchanting, and the ability to enchant stuff like paper to make scrolls, although I would like it if that system was expanded. The best scroll I made in Morrowind only did something like 20 fire damage on touch.

As for mana, I suppose we are at an impasse. Either we make mana regeneration slower and have no spell failure rate, with the challenge being that one must think of which spells they are going to cast before they do so in order to maximize effectiveness, or we have the same fast regeneration and have a spell failure chance to offset this.

The reason I believe we should return to spell failure rates is that the only other way to balance spells is to have ridiculous caps on what spells you can use at what level of the skill. Its totally insane that I can't use such-and-such spell at rank 74, but can at rank 75. How more arbitrary can one get?

» Sat Sep 19, 2009 10:42 pm

Personally, I enjoyed that system. I would spend a lot of time ensuring that my spells had a good ratio of power to chance-to-fail so that I wouldn't get into a loop like that.

Really, I want much of the magic system from Morrowind back. I really enjoyed being a mage in Morrowind because a lot more thought went into the process. Of course we keep the things like not having to ready your hands (that was silly), but I really would like to have back spell failure chance, personal enchanting, and the ability to enchant stuff like paper to make scrolls, although I would like it if that system was expanded. The best scroll I made in Morrowind only did something like 20 fire damage on touch.

As for mana, I suppose we are at an impasse. Either we make mana regeneration slower and have no spell failure rate, with the challenge being that one must think of which spells they are going to cast before they do so in order to maximize effectiveness, or we have the same fast regeneration and have a spell failure chance to offset this.

The reason I believe we should return to spell failure rates is that the only other way to balance spells is to have ridiculous caps on what spells you can use at what level of the skill. Its totally insane that I can't use such-and-such spell at rank 74, but can at rank 75. How more arbitrary can one get?

To the issue of spell failure, it needs to have a range of success/failure. So if you've got (essentially) a level 20 spell with level 20 destruction, you should have a failure rate of 15%, a super success rate (150% damage) of 15%, and a usual cast rate of 65%, with a super fail rate of 5%. Same level 20 spell with 10 destruction might mean 10% super success rate, 40% success rate 35% fail rate, and 15% super fail rate. A level 20 spell with level 40 destruction could be 5% fail rate, 65% success rate, and 30% super success rate.

Though really I'd like the ability to improve the spells you cast in your spellbook. The basic spells they teach you in the guild are training ideals to teach you how to cast a properly balanced spell. Once you've learned those however, you could tweak them against the failure rate to get higher results. If you don't tweak them for higher results, then you are able to cast them faster as you level up, and for lower mana costs. This means the level 20 fireball if left alone will cast at machine gun rates by your level 80 destruction for very low mana.

» Sat Sep 19, 2009 4:37 pm

To the issue of spell failure, it needs to have a range of success/failure. So if you've got (essentially) a level 20 spell with level 20 destruction, you should have a failure rate of 15%, a super success rate (150% damage) of 15%, and a usual cast rate of 65%, with a super fail rate of 5%. Same level 20 spell with 10 destruction might mean 10% super success rate, 40% success rate 35% fail rate, and 15% super fail rate. A level 20 spell with level 40 destruction could be 5% fail rate, 65% success rate, and 30% super success rate.

Though really I'd like the ability to improve the spells you cast in your spellbook. The basic spells they teach you in the guild are training ideals to teach you how to cast a properly balanced spell. Once you've learned those however, you could tweak them against the failure rate to get higher results. If you don't tweak them for higher results, then you are able to cast them faster as you level up, and for lower mana costs. This means the level 20 fireball if left alone will cast at machine gun rates by your level 80 destruction for very low mana.

We could always use the overcharging system I suggested eons ago to allow for scaling of a spell, although that doesn't allow for one to downscale the spell.

However, it could allow one to make a weak spell (for their weaker skill level), and overcharge it when they needed the extra power (of course, with a higher spell failure chance).

» Sat Sep 19, 2009 7:16 am

I think we should have some sort of a overheat system. But if that is not possible use the oblivion system.

» Sat Sep 19, 2009 5:00 pm

I vote for Oblivion's system.

» Sat Sep 19, 2009 9:55 am

What I would do is have magicka pool and magicka regen depend on startring intel current intel starting willpower and starting skills as well as race AND how many magic items your wearing/carrying.

But have those same magic items have side effects the more your carry around/wear and specialy wield. say wearing 3 minor rings would slow down your phydical attacks or make you glow a bit.. 12 moderate magic rings would make you rather glowy and make a decidedly magical noise as you move and realy slow with weaponry.. and wearing a magic robe.. well that would make you shine and sparkle and whatnot.. and a wand or staff or two in hand.. dayglow bright. BUT with all that stuff you would have alot more magicka pool and your magicka would regen a fair bit faster.. still SLOW but faster then otherwise.But none of that cheap [censored] reflect magick crud and none of that cheap resist magic. and enchanted items should have up and downsides.. like in daggerfall with souls providing sideeffects..

I dont want to run out of energy on just one critter but I do want to run out in battle if I go too far.. I want to feel nervous as my reserves dwindle.

I want there to be a solid reason to be a mage from start to finish and everywhere inbetween. I want to be a mage 24/7 not as a freaking hobby as it was in ob and mw.