Ok, I was re-playing the main quest in oblivion and I noticed somethings-

1.In Paradise, Mankar has the Amulet of Kings around his neck. How is this possible if he's not of the Septim Bloodline?

2.Mankar has two kids (forgive me if im wrong) that die with him. My question is who was the mother?

Thanks!

1. He is a King in his realm, so he can wear the Amulet of Kings. Leaving his realm doesn't change this. He has Chim.
2. Raven and Ruma could be children of his own creation, or just "children." There didn't need to be a conception, per se. I'm inclined to believe Raven was conceived with a woman, while Ruma was created with Gaiar Alata. Of course, I can't prove this.

Thanks! Jeez I need to brush up on my lore knowledge

1. The books you've read, or the bits of text from those books you saw on the loading screens they're not accurate. They help tell the story of the main quest and in that way it fits. However when you look at the whole history of Cyrodiil they are rather inconsistent.

Being of the Septim blood line is not a requirement. A notable example would be Empress Katariah, a Dunmer. The first Empress was Alessia, though being some how related to her shouldn't matter either. After 5000 years just about everybody would be able to wear the Amulet of Kings.
It's assumed that being sufficiently royal.

The Amulets protection against Oblivion is also sketchy. Tiber Septim only came around some 500 years ago, the Amulet of Kings and the Empire has been around some 5000 years in one form or another and through most of the second Era the Amulet was laying dead Remans III grave.
It's assumed that there are other defences and that the events of Morrowind knocked one out to make it matter.



Well, Gaiar Alata is a hill.

Huh? :huh:

Also notice that he can wear the Amulet on Tamriel and the reason why he can wear it is because he is http://www.imperial-library.info/fsg/nazzarticle05.shtml.

No he doesn't.

hehe, exactly


Anyone who can wear the stone of Royalty has Chim. He's earned the moniker "Master" for a reason. Perhaps I'm wrong.

Tiber was called Master by Vivec. That doesn't say anything about the others.

Im lost 8( What is "chim"

Uriel, wasn't it?
In the waning years of the Third Era, after the coming of the Nerevarine and the deaths of two members of the Tribunal, Lord Vivec (Vehk) decided to go to Cyrodiil on a personal matter. Along the way, he had interesting discussions with scholars. They spoke about several topics, from The Dragon Break to the mystery of the Psijic Endeavor.

Within the text:
Understand that I am a Master and make my own way. For me, Mystery is dead. That is so hard to write. You cannot feel the pause. My brother is dead.
Mystery is dead to the Master, but this is difficult for him to write, because he still grieves for Sotha Sil, who was Mystery.

Isn't he rumored to be a child of Camoran Usurper?

Yes, and part of the Camoran dynasty or something.

That is what I thought too, I read it just the other day.

I call BS. (Bull [censored])

Tiber Septim is more 1,300 years ago...

Anyhow. Mankar is an Altmer in the game, but by lore he is Bosmer and he is the son of Camoran Usurper. After Usurper was defeated, his mom (a maiden) escaped and relocated to another location.

Been a while since anyone asked that Don't worry, it's a fairly common question and, despite how it sounds, it's not terribly complicated. There are a few ways to go when learning what it is: search the forums (there are about half a dozen threads about nothing else), http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/lessons.shtml#21 the http://www.imperial-library.info/obscure_text/vehk_teaching.shtml#7, or take the http://s1.zetaboards.com/TESFU/topic/2694183/1/. I advise reading the last one only if you think you've figured it out from the other two

PS If you want more texts, try the Trial of Vivec, or perhaps Nu-Mantia Intercept. I just know that those two are probably the most clear on it (which is scary, I know ). Oh, and apologies for the advertising, but that site is in need of some lore help

And I am doubtful that Mankar had CHIM at all.




EDIT: Oh c'mon, that doesn't help anyone understand at all And my apologies for the ninja-ing. I'm just that good :ninja:

Oh my god... here it comes. I'll post this and edit it later so i don't get ninja'd

I still did. DAMB IT!

Chim is knowing that you are part of everything, and yet are sepearate from eveything, and as such you can use yourself knowing how it will effect everything else (by waving your hand one way or another it will disturb the air and create a hurricane, or just be a normal gust of wind. Those with Chim can see the differance, and chose which timeline to follow).

Also, Chim is a nickname for CHIM CE ALTADOON, AE CHIM NU-MEN NU-MANTIA, or AE GHARTOK PADHOME [CHIM] AE ALTADOON.

In other words, it's the term Vivec uses to describe that attribute or power or whatever that makes one worthy of a king or god or whatnot, and since it came from Holy Morrowind, Blessed Be its Canon and Death to its Usurper, that's the term people use to describe whatever the heck it is.

With CHIM you are everything, but also you remain yourself, I. Those who realize they are everything, but do not retain their individuality, I, they disappear as they are now everything but not themselves, Zero Sum.

With CHIM you know you are the entire dream, but you still stay yourself, despite being everything and because you still remain I, they have control over the dream. With Zero Sum, you know you are the entire dream and become the dream, because you cannot retain the I.

Also, it has been jokingly said it's the Construction Set.

That is the very basic version of it.

Which would mean that all the Emperors had Chim and that doesn't make any sense. Chim and Enantiomorph are two different things, as far as I know.

Why not? As Emperors, they had a continental empire to maintain, no mean feat, and few have actually become Emperors. Then you have Uriel VII being named a Master by Vivec who is a Master, and Camoran is also called the "Master." I wouldn't think anything of it, but Mankar's Commentaries discuss "Masters" and "Makers," so he's at least aware of the metaphorical meaning of his title. Perhaps Chim isn't always as "spectacular" in its manifestation as in Vivec or Talos; and perhaps the Emperors didn't acheive Chim in the same way as either, but were secured this inheritance by the actions of Talos.

Your favorite four-letter word is only one in a long list.

You in the Fourth Era have already witnessed many of the attempts at reaching the final subgradient of all AE, that state that exists beyond mortal death. The Numidium. The Endeavor. The Prolix Tower. CHIM. The Enantiomorph. The Scarab that Transforms into the New Man.

Nu-mantia! Liberty! Rejoice in the promise of paradise!

A rose by any other name, yada yada.

Tiber Septim was born in 2E 827,
The second Era ended in 2E 896,
The third Era ended in 3E 433,
It is now Circa 4E 43.

So - 827 + 896 + 433 + 43 = 545 years ago.



Indeed, my mistake.

Thanks everyone, I now have some of an idea of CHIM

I wonder if the term Master refers only to the Chim or if it refers to any type of final subgradient/divinity/whatever. Anyway, even if it refers only to the Chim it is not conclusive. Where is Mankar called Master? He discusses it in his Commentaries, but he discusses there a lot of things. And even if he had Chim it wouldn't mean that it is the reason why he can wear the Chim-el Adabal. All the people who were able to wear the amulet were part of some enantiomorph or were descendants of such people, so I find it logical to believe that it is the connection to enantiomorph what gives them the ability to wear the amulet.

The way I understand it is that Tiber Septim isn't REALLY dead...it's sort of the same deal as Sheogorath. Each new Emperor MANTLES him and sits on his throne, keeping the power of the realm alive (the "realm" being more the stable Mundus, separate from Oblivion in this case.) The Amulet of Kings is sort of like the symbol of the office, the same as Sheogorath's staff. So it's really like more of an office than a person..the Emperor. Yes, there's a person but that person occupies a place more so than actually being the true authority themselves.