Mankar Camoran

Post » Thu Mar 11, 2010 2:46 am

Mankar Camoran as far as we know is an Altmer, yet he has racial attributes of Nords and bretons as well as Altmer. Not only that but he can wear the Amulet of Kings, how is that possible? Only those with Septim blood can and he is the son of Camoran Usurper. But his mother was a bosmer and the race of a child is carried by the mother (see-the grey prince) so he should be a bosmer but he's not! His paradise looks like a pre-alessian cyrodiil. Cyrodiil (espesially around the imperial city) is reffered to be a "jungle" and his palace is likely the only time in the game where we can see a non-ruined ayleid building.

I think that Mankar is a reencarnated Ayleid. I think that somehow ayleid magic made his mothers child an ayleid one. I remember reading about ayleid revenge at one point. It had something to do with the shape of imperial city. So this is my theory. What do you lore-masters believe?
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Louise
 
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Post » Thu Mar 11, 2010 3:50 am

Mankar Camoran as far as we know is an Altmer, yet he has racial attributes of Nords and bretons as well as Altmer. Not only that but he can wear the Amulet of Kings, how is that possible? Only those with Septim blood can and he is the son of Camoran Usurper. But his mother was a bosmer and the race of a child is carried by the mother (see-the grey prince) so he should be a bosmer but he's not! His paradise looks like a pre-alessian cyrodiil. Cyrodiil (espesially around the imperial city) is reffered to be a "jungle" and his palace is likely the only time in the game where we can see a non-ruined ayleid building.

I think that Mankar is a reencarnated Ayleid. I think that somehow ayleid magic made his mothers child an ayleid one. I remember reading about ayleid revenge at one point. It had something to do with the shape of imperial city. So this is my theory. What do you lore-masters believe?


Or he's a "plastic Ayleid". Somebody who isn't actually anything of the kind but has adopted, for his own purposes, some reconstruction of Ayleid culture.

As to the Amulet of Kings, that is either superstition, as the Septim bloodline has been in tatters for a couple centuries already and some distinctly non-Septim Emperors have ruled long and successfully, or more likely a case of "Septim is as Septim does": it's the soul of a ruler, not the blood of old Tiber, that makes the wearer. And even though he's as loopy as old mad Pelagius, he's of a royal line.

The problem with making him a Bosmer in game is that a runty Mankar Camoran would be even more risible.
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Taylor Tifany
 
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Post » Thu Mar 11, 2010 5:23 am

Or he's a "plastic Ayleid". Somebody who isn't actually anything of the kind but has adopted, for his own purposes, some reconstruction of Ayleid culture.

As to the Amulet of Kings, that is either superstition, as the Septim bloodline has been in tatters for a couple centuries already and some distinctly non-Septim Emperors have ruled long and successfully, or more likely a case of "Septim is as Septim does": it's the soul of a ruler, not the blood of old Tiber, that makes the wearer. And even though he's as loopy as old mad Pelagius, he's of a royal line.

The problem with making him a Bosmer in game is that a runty Mankar Camoran would be even more risible.


The real shame I felt when takin him out was the fact that I had to "Go through" his kids...even in paradise. I felt bad about taking out the family. :sad:


Why did "Paradice" turn into hell for his acolytes anyway?
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Steve Fallon
 
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Post » Thu Mar 11, 2010 6:55 am

It's supposed to be ironic, they thought that they were going to be given a real pradie but they were given hell in the name of paradise. It was HIS paradise.
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Chris Guerin
 
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Post » Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:33 pm

It's supposed to be ironic, they thought that they were going to be given a real pradie but they were given hell in the name of paradise. It was HIS paradise.


His paradise looked nice on the inside but his temple kinda svcked inside...I'd think about putting flowers in.
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Rudi Carter
 
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Post » Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:28 pm

The real shame I felt when takin him out was the fact that I had to "Go through" his kids...even in paradise. I felt bad about taking out the family. :sad:
Why did "Paradice" turn into hell for his acolytes anyway?

I know I'm a lazy bastard, but I'm just gonna copy-paste what I just wrote to syronj in another thread anyway:

I can't accept that Mankar Camoran was on the right path, though. If we follow the old proverb that "by their fruits you will know them," what should we think about the "Paradise" that Mankar created?

That it's a place of sadism and a prison. Isn't this a false freedom?

While what Saxbass said may very well be true, but to play the devils advocate I will add:
You're thinking too mortal. M was trying to make his people understand what they really were and were capable off - what seems to us (and the followers) as torture and sadism is his attempts to do so. We do not understand it, because we fear such things, and, most importantly, we fear death. Mankar's followers, however, had no reason to fear neither the torture, the pain, or death. They could not die. If they died, they were brought back to Paradise and lived again. Fear, pain, and horror, were now to them nothing more than hollow concepts - but they still clinged to them with their mortal minds. Had they embraced Mankar's "gifts", they would have become... well, pretty impressive.
One might even go to lengths and say that the line between them and "true" Daedra would have been blurred out.

But, as I said, they were too"weak" to understand this. They couldn't stretch their imagination far enough to look it from any other standpoint than their own, mortal one (little wonder, by the way), and so, they experienced it as a neverending torture.

The only two persons who seemed to have realised what the Paradise was really about seemed to be Mancar's own children, because, if I'm not mistaken, don't they automatically resurrect
every time you kill them, in the final battle?
One might only wonder what he did to make them understand.
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George PUluse
 
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Post » Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:47 pm

There his son and daughter. Teaching them something from birth isn't too hard if you shove it their faces. Of course, you have to ask where the mother went, if there was one.
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Kari Depp
 
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Post » Wed Mar 10, 2010 5:58 pm

My theory for the Amulet of Kings was that since he was in his own paradise the same rules and laws that prevented anyone else in Nirn from wearing the amulet didn't apply to him.
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Kerri Lee
 
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Post » Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:51 pm

Nice theory, but he can wear it also when he was on Nirn. ;)
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casey macmillan
 
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Post » Thu Mar 11, 2010 2:54 am

There his son and daughter. Teaching them something from birth isn't too hard if you shove it their faces. Of course, you have to ask where the mother went, if there was one.

They weren't taught from birth. Mankar killed Runa and had her give birth to herself, becoming her own mother. But I don't know what I'm talking about because I can't find MK's post.
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Katie Louise Ingram
 
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Post » Thu Mar 11, 2010 6:18 am

They weren't taught from birth. Mankar killed Runa and had her give birth to herself, becoming her own mother. But I don't know what I'm talking about because I can't find MK's post.


http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?s=&showtopic=623237&view=findpost&p=9052727

Ruma gave birth to herself, and her father was the father. She also gave birth to her brother, but he is not her son.

There's your Wife, OP.

- M(an)K(ar)

EDIT: The above should read, "...but he is not her son, for Mankar is." Otherwise, it would've been confusing.


He that enters Paradise enters his own Mother. AE ALMA RUMA! The Aurbis endeth in all ways.

Endeth we seek through our Dawn, all endeth. Falter now and become one with the wayside orphans that feed me. Follow and I shall adore you from inside. My first daughter ran from the Dagonite road. Her name was Ruma and I ate her with no bread, and made another, which learned, and I loved that one and blackbirds formed her twin behind all time.

http://www.imperial-library.info/obbooks/mythic_dawn_commentaries.shtml


...

Confusing is an understatement.


Read it slowly.
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ImmaTakeYour
 
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Post » Thu Mar 11, 2010 5:28 am

Confusing is an understatement.
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Naomi Ward
 
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Post » Thu Mar 11, 2010 8:16 am

Read it slowly and tell us which happens first, understanding it or getting the dike joke.
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Mariaa EM.
 
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Post » Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:29 pm

While this isn't the main topic currently being discussed but something I've rarely discussed nor looked up, I assume Mankar can wear the Amulet of Kings because he's a "ruling king," a man with no double or equal?
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Anna Kyselova
 
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Post » Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:36 pm

While this isn't the main topic currently being discussed but something I've rarely discussed nor looked up, I assume Mankar can wear the Amulet of Kings because he's a "ruling king," a man with no double or equal?

It's not really because he is a ruling king, which he isn't, it's just because he is royalty. Mankar comes from a different line of kings, a line that originally wore the amulet. That "right of rule" that he has, and has largely given himself, allows him to wear the AoK.
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WTW
 
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Post » Thu Mar 11, 2010 8:07 am

It's not really because he is a ruling king, which he isn't, it's just because he is royalty. Mankar comes from a different line of kings, a line that originally wore the amulet. That "right of rule" that he has, and has largely given himself, allows him to wear the AoK.

Which line is he from?
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Ally Chimienti
 
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Post » Thu Mar 11, 2010 3:28 am

Which line is he from?

The idea that Mankar was from another line of kings comes from a documentary or trailer or something, if I recall.

As for which line he's from, either the Camoran Usurper was actually one of the Camoran dynasty even if he had no direct claim to the throne, or he has some affiliation with the Ayleids, which is more likely considering the Amulet of Kings is supposedly an Ayleid artifact.

Or possibly both.

Edit: typo.
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WTW
 
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Post » Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:51 pm

Said more straightforward, Mankar is descended from the line of kings dethroned by Allessia.
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Shaylee Shaw
 
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Post » Thu Mar 11, 2010 5:04 am

It's not really because he is a ruling king, which he isn't, it's just because he is royalty. Mankar comes from a different line of kings, a line that originally wore the amulet. That "right of rule" that he has, and has largely given himself, allows him to wear the AoK.


Aaaaaah. Thanks for that.

The whole "enter[ing] your Mother" and whatnot kinda threw me for a loop.

To ask a random question, seeing a few MK posts in a search, I saw that MK referre him as "the" Mankar. So what does that mean?
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Donald Richards
 
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Post » Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:53 am

To ask a random question, seeing a few MK posts in a search, I saw that MK referre him as "the" Mankar. So what does that mean?


MK wrote the Commentaries for Oblivion, so therefore he is Mankar in a sense....just like he is Vehk in the sense that he wrote the Sermons.

I also take it as he is THE Mankar in the sense that the Mankar we saw in Oblivion was not the Mankar that was intended to be shown....hence, MK (or rather, MK's writing) is Mankar as he was supposed to be.
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Maddy Paul
 
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Post » Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:10 pm

Like the Divine Crusader as he was supposed to be, and to a much lesser extent, Vivec as he was supposed to be. Heywaitaminute...
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louise fortin
 
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Post » Wed Mar 10, 2010 5:23 pm

MK wrote the Commentaries for Oblivion, so therefore he is Mankar in a sense....just like he is Vehk in the sense that he wrote the Sermons.

I also take it as he is THE Mankar in the sense that the Mankar we saw in Oblivion was not the Mankar that was intended to be shown....hence, MK (or rather, MK's writing) is Mankar as he was supposed to be.


I saw that in th e"M(an)K(ar)" bit, but I was hoping Mankar maybe meant something in one language or another.
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Zosia Cetnar
 
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Post » Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:19 pm

Like the Divine Crusader as he was supposed to be, and to a much lesser extent, Vivec as he was supposed to be. Heywaitaminute...



I'm not sure what you're getting at.

Of course, I am a bit drunk, so that might be why.
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Averielle Garcia
 
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Post » Thu Mar 11, 2010 3:29 am

I'm not sure what you're getting at.

Of course, I am a bit drunk, so that might be why.

The difference between Pelinal Whitestrake and the Divine Crusader of the Knights of the Nine would be a cluster[censored] of suffocating irony if such things didn't simply bounce of the glossy, Bloom-lit faces of Oblivion NPCs like dustbunnies hitting a moonbounce.

And I still don't know why Ken Rolston wrote Vivec's quest dialogue.
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Flutterby
 
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Post » Thu Mar 11, 2010 9:02 am

The difference between Pelinal Whitestrake and the Divine Crusader of the Knights of the Nine would be a cluster[censored] of suffocating irony if such things didn't simply bounce of the glossy, Bloom-lit faces of Oblivion NPCs like dustbunnies hitting a moonbounce.

And I still don't know why Ken Rolston wrote Vivec's quest dialogue.


:dance:

Eloquently put indeed.
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Darren Chandler
 
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