I understood what you were asking, but while the fact may be that the Developers were just lazy with Pale Pass, it may very well be possible that humans continued to live in Akavir and possibly may have been part of the invading Akaviri army, but were just ruled by the snake men of Akavir.

Most likely. I mean I knew that the Akavari ghosts were just a result of laziness as soon as I saw them. It's possible that Mannimarco was simply meant to look super evil in Daggerfall, hence the shadowed face and evil looking robe. I wouldn't be surprised if Bethesda just didn't want to make all of that in Oblivion.

I believe it is said that the humans on Akavir were "eaten" by the Tsaeci.

That's too bad. There are so many cool surprises that could exist, but they don't. The Pale Pass quest could have been one of the best in the entire Elder Scrolls series. I haven't actually completed the quest yet, but I ruined the entire game for myself when I got it over a year ago by reading lore, looking up specific terms, finding quests related to those terms, and reading about those quests. Anyway, how powerful is Mannimarco in Oblivion? What about in Daggerfall? Did he seem just as capable as Daggerfall's Mannimarco?

Well, when I fought him with default difficulty in Oblivion, he wasn't even a challenge. I hit him a few times with a powerful staff and he went down quick. He definitely didn't seem like the amazing necromancer that he was hyped up to be.

The same thing seems to be true for most people and events in Oblivion. Umaril wasn't the godling of death like I thought. I killed him and then destroyed his soul quickly and easily. That would have gave me a sense of great accomplishment, if such a thing wasn't possible for anyone at any level. My character is always around level 30 when I kill Umaril(I like to give myself a sense of accomplishment) and I felt like I accomplished something, but my feeling of accomplishment didn't last long when I remembered level-scaling made such a thing possible for any character at any level. Umaril should be a killing machine, never a level 1 rat. I believe that Bethesda wanted Mannimarco in Oblivion to be the real one, but I hope that they decide he is too weak to truly be Mannimarco. The real Mannimarco should appear in TES V, without level-scaling.

Its a reskinned http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall%3a%44aedra_Summoning with neat effect. Kinda like saying that http://uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Barenziah and her children http://uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Helseth and http://uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Morgiah also have fair skin like a Breton.


The dev wanted to put a leader of the bad guys Necromancers by just attacking the Mage Guild in Oblivion with that good vs evil crap. If any scenario along the line that Mannimarco did split in Dragon Break, http://gamall-ida.com/f/files/realmannimarco_190.jpg

The "real one" in the Daggerfall becomes god in the end. Oh, and ya should check out his crib in Daggerfall. Ya will meet him eventually.

MK said that? I never knew... Linky please?

Well perhaps they were just bipedal Mo*.

* The race would be Mo, since Tang Mo means Thousand Monkey Islands. Similarly, Tsaesci means snake palace, so the race could be Tsae, and Ka Po' Tun means Tiger Dragon Empire, meaning that the racial name would be Po.

Lichdom isn't all it's cracked up to be. Ever seen Pirates of the Carribean? Sure he's powerful, but you really can't enjoy it. It's like god mod, it ruins the game. Eh, I'm not confident about the Aetherius statement, I'd think it'd be a bit harder.



As people have said, there were, though they were "eaten" by the Tsaeci. However, this is open to interpretation, and I have certainly read somewhere a very interesting theory on it:

First one- They were all literally eated, flesh consumed and all that good stuff.

My favorite- By "eaten", they mean absorbed, in that they interbred with the Tsaeci until the men were gone (guessing if you take your mother's race, then men bred with Tsaeci women). I believe this was used to explain some of the more human features of the Tsaeci, and I fuzzily remember something about them not being able to do something important because they didn't have any human in them. Forget what it was, sorry :shrug: And no links, I wouldn't even be able to tell you who said it.

And another one- The human ghosts were human mercenaries or slaves the Tsaeci took from Tamriel. Simple

Though if MK said it was game mechanics, I'm good with that B)



EDIT: Indeed, that is my favorite theory about him. I can certainly see his followers doing that.

Oh wow I hadn't seen that picture in forever, good find :thumbsup:

I could give you any number of reasons why this prissy Altmer has decided to take on the guise of Manni, but Im pretty sure it would be written off as "SlandLore" or "BATW" (or worse) so I'll just keep it to myself...

My theory was that only things directly affected one way or the other by the Mantella outcomes would have duplicates following the Dragon Break. Daggerfall, Wayrest, and Sentinel each have a scenario each in which they subdue the other kingdoms and in which they are subdued by one of the other two. All the lesser kingdoms were absorbed as that would have happened no matter which kingdom acquired the Mantella. Simply put, just imagine taking a map of the Iliac Bay and spilling wine over Daggerfall, Wayrest, and Sentinel. The stain, as it spreads, is that kingdom's political and territorial acquisitions after using the Numidium. Overlapping areas cancel out, which is obviously why all three expanded but did not destroy the other following the Dragon Break.

These changes among the kingdoms are a gradual and compromised scenario. With Mannimarco, it was either "he became a God" or "he didn't become a God", so I guess the multiple instances in which he did not acquire the Mantella would result in multiple non-divine Mannimarcos. But that still doesn't explain why we have that puny Altmer in Oblivion - even before his apotheosis, the King of Worms in Daggerfall looked pretty damn powerful. Hell, he was already a Lich, wasn't he? Maybe something happened like the powers of each non-divine Mannimarco were channeled to the God of Worms. I don't know. :shrug:

(From http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?s=&showtopic=1066840&view=findpost&p=15522267)

I wish I could. That thread was like four years ago. I vaguely remember he said "They should have been giant snakes. Disregard what you saw." or something along those lines.

He said a similar thing about Morihus, when there was a human like statue of him in Imperial City. MK strongly asserted he's a bull, with wings, not a man.

Either I'm crazy, which is possible - high, which is extremely unlikely - or he said those things. I wish I had a link but I don't. Maybe he'll grace us with his presence.

Not as much of "lazy" as "not overachieving". To make skeletal snakemen would require entirely new detailed meshes AND animation models. Not to mention in OB, mechanics limit dialogue to NPC's, probably also the reason Mannimarco wasn't a lich.

Couldn't they have just made Mannimarco look like a lich by handcrafting some of his features to look like those of a lich(not the generic lich, but still a lich)? They should have at least gave him some unique(really unique looking) robes to wear, perhaps like those of Daggerfall's Mannimarco. It really shouldn't have taken too much effort to make Mannimarco more unique. He is an Elder Scrolls legend, and he looks like any other Altmer. As for the Akaviri skeletons, why would it be so hard to make a new creature for one ruin and a quest that is sure to get many fans' hopes up when they first hear about it? I'm sure many were disappointed when they finally got to Pale Pass, hoping to see something unique.

Making one creature is a lot of work when they're only in one quest. You need to give them a mesh, a texture, and given the nature of snakes, (curiously the messenger's diary also said the messenger was a biped, and nowhere in the game was the Akaviri race specified) new animation models for moving, attacking, blocking, staggering, etc.

But he got to sail in a ship! About Aetherius, I heard that lichdom basicly opens it up to you somewhere, I can't remember where.

Aetherius is pure magic (change) and is home to Magnus and a lot of minor EtADA. By "opening it up" it would mean Liches have an infinate magical supply.

Actually, magic is more like pure potential. It can change, but nothing is acting upon it.

http://www.imperial-library.info/obscure_text/vehk_teaching.shtml#3

When magic is used, yes it is change. It still needs a push, or else I'd seem it more like Sithis and Padomay, chaos, entropy, etc, etc if was a constant change. Heck, it'd probably end up making everything in the Aetherius seem more like the the very realm of chaos in WH, and cause everyone to mutate horrifically in TES, since magic does leak from it.

Plus, solid change sounds pretty much like Welkyn and Varla stones, which do crap until used. Pure solid potential.

What if Magic is the act of potential energy turning into kinetic energy?

Todd "Action man" Howard strikes again!

You and your science :rolleyes:

Of course, magic doesn't obey science, and unless the devs got that technical with it then it's unlikely that they went so deep as to define magic's place within the laws of physics (energy conservation). Entirely possible, but unlikely.

I would think magic, if one must define it, works best to be described as potential energy in its purest form. Then, once a mage gets hold of it, they can turn that potential into change, be it thermal, kinetic, etc. I can't imagine how telekinesis works according to science, or teleportation, but since they use magic if we were to get scientific then some magical energy would have to be used up in order for it to occur. Which would mean that it either works in a feasible way (don't think so), or it is a new force altogether. I'm going with the second one

So, magicka is potential, but then it depends on how you use it in spells after that, some of which behave in a way entirely alien to us. But then that energy would need some way of either returning to Aetherius or increasing the total energy on Nirn. So if we got scientific enough, Nirn is either going to go through global warming, or energy is being sent back somehow.

I know absolutely nothing about physics, but isn't it possible that in teleportation attempts atoms are de-assembled and re-assembled?

Edit: I accidently my post

Telikeniis.... a BUTTLOAD of brainwaves.

Teliportation... Wormholes

Science can even explain the Bible (and in my opinion, in some cases, proves it)